[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

[Koi No Yokan]

Sorry if it's been brought up (no doubt someone's pointed it out, but I'm not going through 30+ threads), but I noticed early on people talking about how none of Sansa's gems were missing. Pretty sure there was an empty spot on her far left, half hidden up near her collar.

You could see Olenna remove her hand as if holding something, then going to pocket it. Just my stray observation, anyway.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Koi No Yokan

[Queen of Whores]

Hahah I was looking at this right as I read your post. http://24.media.tumblr.com/dfffb1c8e9c0afcd26e8877653bb267b/tumblr_mkk4cfBzJR1qzpxx1o1_1280.jpg

I think I found my new avatar :D

Edited April 14, 2014 by Queen of Whores

[Rill Redthorn]

In regard to Bronn and Shae: at first I thought he only said he put her on a ship, and I thought to myself "Well, she probably got right back off again, that's how she'll end up with Tywin." But on rewatching, Tyrion specifically asks Bronn if he saw the ship set sail, and Bronn says "Yes."

However, there are a couple of ways Shae could get back without Bronn betraying Tyrion. One is she could grab one of the ship's boats (the small utility boats every large ship had in those days) and row it back by herself, and the second, more likely way, is that if someone saw Bronn and Shae leaving and saw what boat she got on, they could send a faster boat after Shae's boat, tell it to hold up on the orders of the King's Hand, and just take Shae off it and back into the city.

I'm inclined to bet on the second one myself, because we know that Cersei was watching Shae's every move that day.

[Ty K]

Sorry if it's been brought up (no doubt someone's pointed it out, but I'm not going through 30+ threads), but I noticed early on people talking about how none of Sansa's gems were missing. Pretty sure there was an empty spot on her far left, half hidden up near her collar.

You could see Olenna remove her hand as if holding something, then going to pocket it. Just my stray observation, anyway.

This didn't make sense to me in the show or the book. Why doesn't Olenna just keep the poison on her? What was the point of having Sansa smuggle it in? Were people being patted down as they went in? I just don't get it.

[Envie]

Sorry if it's been brought up (no doubt someone's pointed it out, but I'm not going through 30+ threads), but I noticed early on people talking about how none of Sansa's gems were missing. Pretty sure there was an empty spot on her far left, half hidden up near her collar.

You could see Olenna remove her hand as if holding something, then going to pocket it. Just my stray observation, anyway.

I had to go back and re-watch that scene where Olenna spoke to Sansa and fiddled with her hair ... then there it was, yep - she briefly fiddled with the necklace as well. Next cut to sansa's face, you see the missing gem on the right side by her collar bone and edge of her dress.

Boom.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

This is bugging me, so you guys are saying that the image below the face in no way resemble one of these? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0oGgVLy5gO0/TV36D5EgGbI/AAAAAAAAJBo/0JyMUn-6SeY/s1600/white+roses+flowers+wallpapers+%252810%2529.jpg

[Kaguya]

Amazing episode

- Loved Ramsey and Rooses interactions, poor Theon, even Roose seems a bit intimidated by his bastard. Still can't believe Ramsays actor thinks Joffrey is worse than him

- I didn't know Oberyn was supposed to be Gay/bi? Is that just a twist added by HBO?

- Isn't it funny that Cersei was the only one amused by Joffreys actions at the wedding and the rest were disgusted, hopefully now she starts acting like book Cersei from now on

- Loved Jack Gleeson, he went out with a bang.

[Florina Laufeyson]

This didn't make sense to me in the show or the book. Why doesn't Olenna just keep the poison on her? What was the point of having Sansa smuggle it in? Were people being patted down as they went in? I just don't get it.

Cuz one: Needed to create a patsy.

And two: *spoilered for the unsullied here*

Littlefinger is a bitch.

[BasTyra]

In regard to Bronn and Shae: at first I thought he only said he put her on a ship, and I thought to myself "Well, she probably got right back off again, that's how she'll end up with Tywin." But on rewatching, Tyrion specifically asks Bronn if he saw the ship set sail, and Bronn says "Yes."

Actually he doesn't. He asks if he saw the ship sail and bronn replies, "Noone knows she's there but you, me and varys" he doesn't actually confirm the ship sailed at all.

[Knight of Ashes]

Hahah I was looking at this right as I read your post. http://24.media.tumblr.com/dfffb1c8e9c0afcd26e8877653bb267b/tumblr_mkk4cfBzJR1qzpxx1o1_1280.jpg

Omg. It's UnHeisenberg.

[Queen of Whores]

Really off-topic, soz, but this is really troubling me. I'm trying to change my avatar (to that Walter White Walker one :Lol:) but every time I try it just goes back to my current avatar, the Cersei one. Has anyone had this problem before? If so, how do you fix it?

[Onna Lewyys]

This is bugging me, so you guys are saying that the image below the face in no way resemble one of these? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0oGgVLy5gO0/TV36D5EgGbI/AAAAAAAAJBo/0JyMUn-6SeY/s1600/white+roses+flowers+wallpapers+%252810%2529.jpg

Ohhhhhh I see it now. I'm still not totally sure, though.

[BasTyra]

This is bugging me, so you guys are saying that the image below the face in no way resemble one of these? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0oGgVLy5gO0/TV36D5EgGbI/AAAAAAAAJBo/0JyMUn-6SeY/s1600/white+roses+flowers+wallpapers+%252810%2529.jpg

Haha no, it looks more like this to me, only paler and blobbier: http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201105/r773024_6592928.JPG

But are we both looking at the same pale blob?

It's probably nothing at all, just a pile of snow that looks like things. :D

[Florina Laufeyson]

Really off-topic, soz, but this is really troubling me. I'm trying to change my avatar (to that Walter White Walker one :lol:) but every time I try it just goes back to my current avatar, the Cersei one. Has anyone had this problem before? If so, how do you fix it?

Yeah thats happened. It eventually changes on its own.

It's probably nothing at all, just a pile of snow that looks like things.

Yeah im thinking that. We wanna see something awesome in that but its really just..what it is.

[setmyheartafire]

First, I'm chuffed by the changes GRRM made in this epi. I love that he is so versatile and can use this medium to tell his story too. I love that it gives him a chance to add to what he already put out, to show things that don't work in his narrative, and to change things up without completely re-imagining his work.

The exchanges between the characters at the wedding were fantastic and some were even theory fodder for me.

I am so not a Dorne fan but I love this Oberyn and am completely sad to know where his plot is heading. I could definitely do with a lot more Viper. I loved how he put Cersei in her place and threatened Myrcella right in front of Tywin. He has serious balls.

Cersei's exchange with Brienne has made me pretty sure that Jaime will be the valonqar. Like cemented it in my head.

Jaime with Loras was great. I totally felt the burn.

Margaery's discomfort during Joff's sadistic stunts was beautiful. Natalie Dormer is a fine actress. I was worried when they cast her that all I would see is Anne Boleyn but not so. She was a fantastic Boleyn and she is a fantastic Margaery.

I really, really like the show characterization of QoT and Margaery. For all their schemes, I do think that Margaery's charity is not completely political. She seems much nicer than I thought she was in the books. Granted she is manipulative, but I don't think she's actually despicable. I think this was clear in tonight's episode. She did not seem to have an easy time schooling her expressions of disgust, disdain, and embarrassment at the cruel antics of the king. Does she seem nicer in the show to anyone else? Or is my reading way too colored by Cersei's bullshit paranoia?

I dunno, I feel like show Margaery is very sympathetic to the less fortunate.

Hmmm what else?

Yes the QoT stole the stone off Sansa's necklace. I do think Margaery was in on it. She would never want to suffer Joffrey and the scenes from last season with the crossbow indicate her willingness to kill him herself if she has to. I kind of think she did it herself. She had the best access to the cup next to Tyrion. It was close to Olenna but wouldn't someone notice if she popped over and mucked with it? I guess perhaps the pie was the diversion though so hmm.

I was concerned going in that two episodes wouldn't do Joff's sadistic nature justice enough to make the ending satisfying. But GRRM did nicely with the script and Jack acted it perfectly. He was absolutely horrible. Beyond disgusting. Like the Hound says, he's "a talker", and what a fitting ending. All the horrible words he's said... he was the perfect victim for the strangler.

Excellent effects at the end. That was truly gruesome. I would never ever want to die by the strangler.

I was also underwhelmed by Cersei's reaction. I felt she did not freak out as much as I expected. Which surprised me. However, her accusation was perfect.

The moment Tywin has always been waiting for: finally, he can be rid of the son he's embarrassed of!

I guess I'm in the minority holding out hope that Bronn doesn't shit on Tyrion because I think Varys was forced to hand Shae over. He's in a foul mood all through the wedding. I mean ALL THROUGH IT. I am thinking this is because he sees the Tyrell/Lannister union to be a stabilizer for the realm (thus in opposition to his own agenda) and maybe also because he had to betray Shae.

All I know is I don't want to hate Bronn.

Seriously, I look for Peter Dinklage to net another couple awards this season. Tyrion is so hurt by everyone in this part of his arc and Peter is already playing the hell out of it. I can't tell if they are going to keep him killing Shae... or have Tywin do it. Either way I think he's going to be miserable. Miserable. He is fantastic. Not at all what I imagined while reading but now I can't read without imagining Dinklage's Tyrion.

Poor Tyrion. Even Oberyn and Margaery looked sorry for him tonight.

How awful to be constantly derided and mocked by your own family.

Now... Bran.

Ummmmmm, so his visions are most interesting. There is one that looks like a statue with a crown. In ice. It looks like Joffrey to me but I've seen others say its an Other. Thoughts?

I find this intriguing and wonder if it is an indication of what "the heart of winter" really is (souls trapped by the Others in an icy hell to power them).

Not much to say about Theon except man he reaped way more than he ever sowed. Death is so much better than degradation and torture.

Stannis I didn't feel as angry with as some seem to. He doesn't seem to enjoy the burnings at all. But of course he needs to defend his actions. He was pretty upset when Selyse's talk turned to Shireen. I like that show Stannis seems far less indifferent to his daughter than book Stannis. And I feel so bad for Shireen. She must be very lonely.

[Onna Lewyys]

- I didn't know Oberyn was supposed to be Gay/bi? Is that just a twist added by HBO?

From Jaime in ASOS:

"Oberyn Martell? The man's infamous, and not just for poisoning his sword. He has more bastards than Robert, and beds with boys as well."

Edited April 14, 2014 by Onna Lewyys

[Jinjonator]

I was also underwhelmed by Cersei's reaction. I felt she did not freak out as much as I expected. Which surprised me. However, her accusation was perfect.

Based on the promo, it looks like we'll see more of her reaction at the beginning of episode 3, when it picks right back up. And she seems to freak out sufficiently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XMvUQQNhnU

[Honey Badger]

I thought it was a really good episode. As time goes on the show will probably have more and more divergences from the books, which is fine by me. I'm starting to like the show better than the books, or at least Feast and Dance which were mediocre to me. The first trilogy I still prefer over the show.

I like how they handled the QoT palming the gem and passing it off with a "plonk." I knew as it was happening but still didn't catch the sleight of hand. Really well done. A second viewing caught it though. It's ballsy as they could have shot that scene wrong and gave it away to viewers.

Jack G as Joffrey went out like a champ. Gruesome death and as I imagined it in the books. Blood flowing everywhere with spittle and purple face. Nice makeup effects and the actor sold it so well. Good luck to him in his future exploits beyond acting.

I'm surprised at those complaining Stannis burned his brother-in-law. Seems in line with him burning the fake King Beyond the Wall. The Red God is pretty brutal and Stannis/Mel were willing to sacrifice people in the books, so this is just a different trajectory on the show but still somewhat similar. My suspicion with the mythology is that followers of the Red God misread the omens and he is in fact the Devil, not God. So even if Stannis is successful, he will have been a devil worshiper.

Cuz one: Needed to create a patsy.

And two: *spoilered for the unsullied here*

Littlefinger is a bitch.

Yeah I think that's it. The QoT and Maggie were willing to let Sansa and Tyrion get slaughtered in order to secure the throne. Pretty ruthless. Funny how Littlefinger had other plans.

[setmyheartafire]

Based on the promo, it looks like we'll see more of her reaction at the beginning of episode 3, when it picks right back up. And she seems to freak out sufficiently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XMvUQQNhnU

Fair enough, she seems pretty pissed off there.

[Jinjonator]

Also, I haven't seen anyone mention this anywhere (but then, 37 pages is a lot), but I noticed how they included the bit about Tywin shitting gold. Perhaps we'll get that line in some form after all?