[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

[jet199]

agreed

but the breakup scene with tyrion and shae would go a long way to justify shaes behavior later. like they say "hell hath no fury etc"

why did he have to breakup with her. just put a bag over her head and toss her in a ship to pentos. DONE.

lord tywin is not what his mask shows. he is quite capable of passionate acts. but the order of elia's murder is not so much an act of passion but a rational (and horrible) act.

It seemed to me that Varys was overly interested in getting Shae to Pentos. Does anyone think that he was planning on sending her to Illyrio so that they would have a hold over Tyrion? She might have become their hostage if she had accepted Varys' offer or got on the boat in the current episode. Still better than what did happen to her I suppose.

[nara]

It seemed to me that Varys was overly interested in getting Shae to Pentos. Does anyone think that he was planning on sending her to Illyrio so that they would have a hold over Tyrion? She might have become their hostage if she had accepted Varys' offer or got on the boat in the current episode. Still better than what did happen to her I suppose.

I got the impression from the books that Varys's relationship with Shae was unusual. She was the only one who recognized him when he was in one of his disguises and he showed her the secret passage out of his room. Perhaps he just likes her and wants her to be safe? Also, he acknowledges Tyrion saved KL and saving Shae may be related to that.

[boojam]

For those who haven't seen it, a nice little reaction from Aimee Richardson (Myrcella):

https://vine.co/v/MJp2KxmPei1

I wonder in the show if we even ever see Aimee Richardson again?

May drop that story line altogether.

If she comes back another show 'kid' who looks like an adult.

[Colonel Green]

she laughs when she is told she has a good heart,

Because Lady Tanda assumes she's crying for Joffrey (and, by extension, that she loves Joffrey and wants to marry him).

she knows the gem was used in the murder, but not how, when it really shouldn't even occur to her, she outright accuses Dontos of murder.

Dontos gave her the hairnet and told her it was "magic" and would do a bunch of other stuff, and then there's a stone missing just after Joffrey mysteriously dies of what anybody could guess was poison. Rather obvious, really.

The "Sansa did it" theory is extraordinarily convoluted in the books, but in the show it's outright impossible given that she did not know anything about the hairnet at all.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Colonel Green

[Chebyshov]

<snip>

Good points, though Sansa's "dodgy memory" is about events months after they occur, not while it's happening, so I'd assume her innocence. In the books it is fairly likely to be Willas or his wife that did the physical poisoning (Book!Olenna is too short to slip something into the chalice without it being noticeable), but in the show, if it's not Olenna who actually did it, it has to be Marg. Obviously it was Olenna's plan, but I'm really confused by Margery's line in the 4x03 promo, so we'll probably have to wait until then to get some closure.

I wonder in the show if we even ever see Aimee Richardson again?

May drop that story line altogether.

If she comes back another show 'kid' who looks like an adult.

I really hope we'll see her. It'd be funny if her vine reaction was actually meant to be foreshadow the Queenmaker plot. But given how much Arya and Bran are aging, I don't see any reason to exclude Myrcella because of appearance. And I rather like Aimee in the role.

I'm assuming a lot of Dorne may be on the chopping block for next season, but what happens to Myrcella seems fairly important.

[Mihai Brasoveanu]

I guess the teaser for episode 3 gets Marge off the hook. Maybe Olenna didn't even tell her about the plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCi65nFm7Co

[Ashvalanor]

The episode was overall fine but i'm disappointed with the absence of my fav. character QoT' amusing line;

"I do so hope he plays us ‘The Rains of Castamere.’ It has been an hour, I’ve forgotten how it goes."

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I was going back and fourth on whether they were going to follow the books with Shae's death. Based on an interview Peter Dinklage gave along with what happened in the first episode I for sure thought they would be faithful to the books. However, after the breakup scene in last week's episode I didn't know what to think. But after watching this trailer I believe they will be absolutely faithful to that scene.

Fast forward the vengance trailer to 1:06 and pay close attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARYEK31yaKI

It seems like this year we're going to get two finales. Episode 9 will involve the huge battle at the wall, and episode 10 will have Tyrion's escape, betrayal, vengance and most likely Littlefinger's reveal. After watching these last two episodes I'm still inclined to think this season will be better than season 1.

Edited April 16, 2014 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Chebyshov]

I was going back and fourth on whether they were going to follow the books with Shae's death. Based on an interview Peter Dinklage gave along with what happened in the first episode I for sure thought they would be faithful to the books. However, after the breakup scene in last week's episode I didn't know what to think. But after watching this trailer I believe they will be absolutely faithful to that scene.

I think they may still be faithful to the books, but just try to give us a reason for Shae's betrayal rather than "she's an opportunistic whore," because Show!Shae has been painted so differently.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I think they may still be faithful to the books, but just try to give us a reason for Shae's betrayal rather than "she's an opportunistic whore," because Show!Shae has been painted so differently.

Ya, I think that's where they're taking it too, like it isn't really her fault for testifying against Tyrion and sleeping with Tywin. If that's the case then Tyrion's act will be a little bit darker than it was in the books.

[Spotted Cat]

For those who haven't seen it, a nice little reaction from Aimee Richardson (Myrcella):

https://vine.co/v/MJp2KxmPei1

show this to arianne :)

anyone know who will play arianne and nym BTW ?

[Chebyshov]

show this to arianne :)

anyone know who will play arianne and nym BTW ?

I doubt we'll see them this season, so they won't be cast until pre-production for S5.

[ovis alba]

I'm wondering if they make Shae's betrayal also about her chosing Sansa over Tyrion as both might get blamed especially after Sansa disappeared. By trying to "protect" Sansa and putting the whole fault on Tyrion they might tie in her relationship with Sansa.

[Onna Lewyys]

I wonder in the show if we even ever see Aimee Richardson again?

May drop that story line altogether.

If she comes back another show 'kid' who looks like an adult.

All the mentioning of Doran and Myrcella so far has me much more confident that the Queenmaker plot will be included next season.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I was going back and fourth on whether they were going to follow the books with Shae's death. Based on an interview Peter Dinklage gave along with what happened in the first episode I for sure thought they would be faithful to the books. However, after the breakup scene in last week's episode I didn't know what to think. But after watching this trailer I believe they will be absolutely faithful to that scene.

Fast forward the vengance trailer to 1:06 and pay close attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARYEK31yaKI

It seems like this year we're going to get two finales. Episode 9 will involve the huge battle at the wall, and episode 10 will have Tyrion's escape, betrayal, vengance and most likely Littlefinger's reveal. After watching these last two episodes I'm still inclined to think this season will be better than season 1.

That event is so monumental and contraversial that it would be beyond stupid to change it. I feel like people are a bit misled about D&D. They're not petty fanboys trying to make some characters better than others to satisfy some silly agenda (Like make Stannis look like the devil or make Tyrion look like an angel). You can disagree with a lot of their choices as I do, but there has never really been any question whether Tyrion will kill Shae. You know what's better for ratings and generating a buzz than having a loveable, witty dwarf? Having a lovable, witty dwarf that just strangled his lover and killed his father.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Is it winter in Kings Landing as of Dance with Dragons? I must have forgotten that... I know it's snowing furiously in the North but I guess I missed that it had come to KL.

Edited: yep, there it is, right there in the epilogue. I have no attention to detail.

Don't feel bad for missing the Winter raven in ADWD. I'm usually so interested in what Kevan is doing that I usually forget to notice and then celebrate that Pycelle is dead.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

That event is so monumental and contraversial that it would be beyond stupid to change it. I feel like people are a bit misled about D&D. They're not petty fanboys trying to make some characters better than others to satisfy some silly agenda (Like make Stannis look like the devil or make Tyrion look like an angel). You can disagree with a lot of their choices as I do, but there has never really been any question whether Tyrion will kill Shae. You know what's better for ratings and generating a buzz than having a loveable, witty dwarf? Having a lovable, witty dwarf that just strangled his lover and killed his father.

Oh I agree, I think overall D&D have done a great job adapting the story to film. I rarely get up in arms about the changes they make. I think the only time I've been extremely disappointed by them was when they butchered the House of the Undying in the S2 finale. For me it wasn't about not including the prophecies, but the fact that they had so much startling imagery to work with that would have looked beautiful onscreen and none of it was used. Back to the point, I have faith in D&D, but sometimes the worrywarts on here can be contagious!

I'm wondering if they make Shae's betrayal also about her chosing Sansa over Tyrion as both might get blamed especially after Sansa disappeared. By trying to "protect" Sansa and putting the whole fault on Tyrion they might tie in her relationship with Sansa.

Honestly, if they let the audience in on why she betrayed Tyrion I think it will be more likely that she did it out of spite or because she was forced to. The latter would make the murder more controversial.

Edited April 16, 2014 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Three sisters]

You can disagree with a lot of their choices as I do, but there has never really been any question whether Tyrion will kill Shae.

I agree. Tyrion did give her the golden chain mast season and in the trailer you see her lying on the bed which the chain.

[dbunting]

About the poisoning and who did what. Has anyone thought that Olena takes the poison from the necklace and gives it to Margeary. Tells Margeary that this "medicine" will calm him down or something along those lines? That would help explain how the poison got into the cup when Olena was so far away.

Or, Olena dropped it in as she walked by, knowing that Margeary would not drink from the royal chalice. You notice only the King has a chalice, all else are using regular glasses.

Either one can explain it, and it seems from the next trailer that Margeary didn't know.

[TheonsPhantomCock]

Did anyone catch the face that appeared in/near the throne in Bran's vision of the snow covered throne room? I am re-watching the episode now and I still missed it.

It looks like one of the undead as it's got blue eyes.