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[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

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I didn't see it either, but I thought it happened when Joffrey was cutting the pigeon pie. Everyone's attention was on that.

I don't think Olenna did it... You can see that the wine glass was still on Maergery and Joffrey's table. Even if it was close to Olenna, there was a night standing right behind where the glass was and Olenna would have been detected tampering with Joffrey's wine glass by the Knight. It is fairly obvious to me that Olenna gave the stone to Maergery and Maergery plopped the poison stone in the wine glass when Joffery handed his wine glass to Maergery before he cut the piegon pie, and then she set it on the table.

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I hope Cercei has an end that makes Theon's experience with Ramsay look like a walk in the park.



I can't have any pity on her. She's a stone cunt. Flaying is too good for her.


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Personally, I really like that there's a very similar level of ambiguity about the poisoner in the TV scene as in the books. It looks like we're getting the "reveal" of the QoT involvement as early as next week (so sooner than we do in the books), at which point the avid fans can go back to the episode and caps that reveal that Olenna touched the necklace, a gem is missing, etc., in just the same way that book fans can go back to the PW chapters to find "confirmation" of LF's explanation.



But like the books, I'm not sure that what we're going to see/hear is in fact the true/full account of how things went down. For example, maybe we'll see Olenna taking responsibility for the poisoning in her conversation with Margaery, but no mention of Sansa. And then only later when LF talks to Sansa do we get the account that includes her necklace, which would emphasize the LF mind-fuck aspects of the necklace plan.


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I didn't see it either, but I thought it happened when Joffrey was cutting the pigeon pie. Everyone's attention was on that.

I don't think Olenna did it... You can see that the wine glass was still on Maergery and Joffrey's table. Even if it was close to Olenna, there was a night standing right behind where the glass was and Olenna would have been detected tampering with Joffrey's wine glass by the Knight. It is fairly obvious to me that Olenna gave the stone to Maergery and Maergery plopped the poison stone in the wine glass when Joffery handed his wine glass to Maergery before he cut the piegon pie, and then she set it on the table.

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Personally, I really like that there's a very similar level of ambiguity about the poisoner in the TV scene as in the books. It looks like we're getting the "reveal" of the QoT involvement as early as next week (so sooner than we do in the books), at which point the avid fans can go back to the episode and caps that reveal that Olenna touched the necklace, a gem is missing, etc., in just the same way that book fans can go back to the PW chapters to find "confirmation" of LF's explanation.

But like the books, I'm not sure that what we're going to see/hear is in fact the true/full account of how things went down. For example, maybe we'll see Olenna taking responsibility for the poisoning in her conversation with Margaery, but no mention of Sansa. And then only later when LF talks to Sansa do we get the account that includes her necklace, which would emphasize the LF mind-fuck aspects of the necklace plan.

Maybe. I think you guys can read more into 2 seconds of out-of-context dialogue than any group of people I've ever come across in my entire life.

[unknown amount of dialogue and time]

Person 1: Your circumstances have improved markedly.

[unknown amount of dialogue and time]

Person 2: But I would have been the queen.

"OMG!!! Person 1 was clearly in on it!!!!"

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I understand why they changed most of the things, including Sir Illyn, but two things I don't get:

1) Why Melisandre was burning Ser Axell Florent, instead of Ser Alester, and why he suddenly became Selyse's brother. Also, Stannis didn't command his death because he was a sinner (which would make him more of a fanatic), but because he tries to negotiate a peace treaty with Tywin Lannister behind Stannis' back.

2) Why Lady Olenna doesn't put her hands on Sansa's necklace, to remove one of the gems, possibly containing the poison that killed Joffrey.

If you watch her right hand when she's messing with Sansa's hair, you can actually see her take one. You have to be looking for it though.

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I missed a lot of the weirwood - Bran download details - it was so Kubrik 2001 I expected him to wake up as a little old man

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I'm sorry, but the "Rains of Castemere" was not being played at the Purple Wedding because it's a "Lannister song". Given Tywin's character, he probably dislikes the song. Joff also dislikes the song being played. No, this was put in as an avatar of the forthcoming poisoning. It's also some sort of a clue to who did the dirty deed on old Joff. It's the kind of touch somebody like Olenna would think of.



I'm still not buying the "she got the poison from Sansa's necklace/hairnet" BS. Didn't happen.


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No, because if you think Tywin was in on the plan, he would have had to have been in on Littlefinger smuggling Sansa out of King's Landing (or else, known where she was afterward). Moreover, Sansa would have been accused alongside Tyrion had she stayed.

I have never figured out the Tywin conspiracy end of things, from the book he just didn't seem involved, on the other hand he seemed somewhat indifferent to Joffrey death. I can't remember Tywin's expression from last episode, but don't remember much reaction.

Tywin has shown more physical expression with his disgust for Tyrion than anybody else.

He really would like to him whacked!

Oddly, if Oberyn Martell were Machiavellian enough , and it would take some thinking thru, he could have been a co-conspirator too.

He could have guessed the consequences of the act and Tryion's trial and hence his revenge... it's a nice package, but I don't thing there's enough evidence in the books.

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I'm sorry, but the "Rains of Castemere" was not being played at the Purple Wedding because it's a "Lannister song". Given Tywin's character, he probably dislikes the song. Joff also dislikes the song being played. No, this was put in as an avatar of the forthcoming poisoning. It's also some sort of a clue to who did the dirty deed on old Joff. It's the kind of touch somebody like Olenna would think of.

I'm still not buying the "she got the poison from Sansa's necklace/hairnet" BS. Didn't happen.

Of course it did. It happened this way in the book. It happens this way on screen. So, I don't honestly even know what you are talking about here. There are screen shots that show it happening.

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I'm still not buying the "she got the poison from Sansa's necklace/hairnet" BS. Didn't happen.

Cool, have fun being the only who doesn't believe it:p

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Please, let's stop all the nonsensical fantasies about Olenna somehow getting the poison from Sansa's necklace. The close up only shows her hand on a stone; it does not show the stone removed from Sansa's necklace. It never was. Removal would have required much more force than could have been done in a subtle way. I think the whole Sansa necklace gambit is a teaser put in by either or both of GRRM and D&D.

I watched the Sansa/OofT interaction at eh wedding many times. I didnt see Olenna remove one of the jewels from Sansa's necklace. Maybe she did but you really can't tell.

How can you honestly say that? Why would Olenna even touch her necklace if that wasn't the case and why was a stone missing from a clasp as soon as Olenna went to go sit down. I think it is pretty obvious that Olenna knew all she had to do was turn a stone to the left or right and it would easily come off the clasp... it was all planned and the kings fool was part of the plan.

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I thought that the Olenna scenes were BRILLIANT. The dialogue "What kind of monster would kill someone at their one wedding?". The way she touches Sansa's necklace and how she is obviously in the shot next to the glass of wine. All of it seems like a big thumbs-up to the book readers. If you go throught it frame by frame, it's perfectly done.



She is also the first one to scream "help your king", not even Cersei reacted by then. She was the only one NOT in shock.



I'm really looking forward to see how LF will make the reveal to Sansa.


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Of course it did. It happened this way in the book. It happens this way on screen. So, I don't honestly even know what you are talking about here. There are screen shots that show it happening.

The screen shots are not conclusive. She either brought the poison with her or she had arranged to have it in Margery's necklace.

I've read the books and I don't remember it being clearly explained that Olenna got the poison from Sansa's necklace.

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Maybe. I think you guys can read more into 2 seconds of out-of-context dialogue than any group of people I've ever come across in my entire life.

[unknown amount of dialogue and time]

Person 1: Your circumstances have improved markedly.

[unknown amount of dialogue and time]

Person 2: But I would have been the queen.

"OMG!!! Person 1 was clearly in on it!!!!"

Haha, you may be right, of course! I'm actually one of the readers who is skeptical about the account that LF provides. But Margaery's almost angry "But I would have been the Queen!" surprised me when I saw it in the trailer. She seems to be taking issue with what Olenna is telling her. I'd be quite happy if the show only implied that Olenna did it without confirming it, which is where we book readers stand.

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The screen shots are not conclusive. She either brought the poison with her or she had arranged to have it in Margery's necklace.

I've read the books and I don't remember it being clearly explained that Olenna got the poison from Sansa's necklace.

She touches both the hairnet in the books and the necklace in the show...both end up with a stone missing after.

Shortly after this, the king is killed by the Strangler...which is a crystal.

Crystals not unlike the ones missing from the respective accessories.

Honestly, it's just joining the dots...I'd be worried about someone if that didn't click with them in about 2 seconds.

Edited by NightStark

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