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[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

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No, because if you think Tywin was in on the plan, he would have had to have been in on Littlefinger smuggling Sansa out of King's Landing (or else, known where she was afterward). Moreover, Sansa would have been accused alongside Tyrion had she stayed.

Sansa would have been executed for treason alongside Tyrion.

Thats a huge conclusion to jump to. I know from the books that people suspected it might of been Sansa but that was mainly because she disappeared after it. The fact there was a plot to rescue Sansa might of been purely Coincidental .It was an obvious distraction and the perfect

point in time for Sansa even without Joffrey's death

Edited by darksellsword

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Haha, you may be right, of course! I'm actually one of the readers who is skeptical about the account that LF provides. But Margaery's almost angry "But I would have been the Queen!" surprised me when I saw it in the trailer. She seems to be taking issue with what Olenna is telling her. I'd be quite happy if the show only implied that Olenna did it without confirming it, which is where we book readers stand.

At that moment and for a few moments more than that, there is no king.

I can't remember from the books just who is queen or queen regent with no king?

Until there is a king crowned.

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The screen shots are not conclusive. She either brought the poison with her or she had arranged to have it in Margery's necklace.

I've read the books and I don't remember it being clearly explained that Olenna got the poison from Sansa's necklace.

Dontos told Sansa that her hairnet was magical, and LF told her, it was one of the amethysts. When she examined it, she noticed that one of the purple amethysts was missing.

Edited by g.o.d

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I think Impfan is just trolling us:phaha

I'm not trolling anybody. Unless you define "troll" as "anybody who disagrees with me."

I just don't think Olenna got the poison from Sansa's necklace/hairnet.

How could she know Sansa would wear the necklace to the wedding?

I was convinced Olenna/Margery did the poisoning after reading the book, but I don't think Sansa was involved in any way, knowingly or unknowingly.

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I'm not trolling anybody. Unless you define "troll" as "anybody who disagrees with me."

I just don't think Olenna got the poison from Sansa's necklace/hairnet.

How could she know Sansa would wear the necklace to the wedding?

I was convinced Olenna/Margery did the poisoning after reading the book, but I don't think Sansa was involved in any way, knowingly or unknowingly.

Because of the story Dontos spun, that's exactly the type of thing Sansa would melt at.

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I thought that the Olenna scenes were BRILLIANT. The dialogue "What kind of monster would kill someone at their one wedding?". The way she touches Sansa's necklace and how she is obviously in the shot next to the glass of wine. All of it seems like a big thumbs-up to the book readers. If you go throught it frame by frame, it's perfectly done.

She is also the first one to scream "help your king", not even Cersei reacted by then. She was the only one NOT in shock.

I'm really looking forward to see how LF will make the reveal to Sansa.

I still think Olenna had Maergery do it... She was the last to touch Joffery's wine glass (other than Tyrion) where it wouldnt have been obvious. There was a Knight standing right behind that wine glass and that Knight would have likely seen Olenna reach over and put something in Joffery's wine glass.

Edited by Needle's Pointy End

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Because of the story Dontos spun, that's exactly the type of thing Sansa would melt at.

This. We know what Sansa is like, she would easily fall for something like this, being given a token etc. Besides, even if she didn't wear it, I'm certain there was a Plan B as well as C and D.

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I still think Olenna had Maergery do it... She was the last to touch Joffery's wine glass (other than Tyrion) where it wouldnt have been obvious. There was a Knight standing right behind that wine glass and that Knight would have likely seen Olenna reach over and put something in Joffery's wine glass.

Seems like too high of a risk. If she got caught, "I'm and old lady, I got confused" - Uncle Leo style (Seinfeld).

If Marge got caught, that would be war.

Edited by Mihai Brasoveanu

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The fact there was a plot to rescue Sansa might of been purely Coincidental.

No, it couldn't have been, because Littlefinger's agent gave her the hairnet with the poison, and Littlefinger knew about the poisoning and the details of Joffrey's death, as well as Olenna's actions, without being told about it.

Edited by Colonel Green

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Seems like too high of a risk. If she got caught, "I'm and old lady, I got confused" - Uncle Leo style (Seinfeld).

If Marge got caught, that would be war.

I mean I guess but Maergery did a great job selling it... " He's Choking "....... If you rewatch the part where Joffery hands his wine glass to Maergery before he cuts the Pigeon Pie, it sure looks like she plops something in there...

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It was Olenna with the help of LF and nobody else. The wider you make a conspiracy the easier it is for it to be uncovered. Margaery knowing about it would mean her reaction to Joffrey's death would be dampened. Tywin doesn't trust the Martell's, rightly so, so there is little chance they would come to him with this plot, unless he was kept in the dark of their involvement, and it was orchestrated by LF.



IMO, LF and the QoT are solely to blame, with the help of Sir Dontos the Fool and Sansa as an unknowing contributor. LF destabilizes the realm again, his constant goal, and now he gets Sansa too.


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I mean I guess but Maergery did a great job selling it... " He's Choking "....... If you rewatch the part where Joffery hands his wine glass to Maergery before he cuts the Pigeon Pie, it sure looks like she plops something in there...

Damn it, man, now I have to see it a third time.

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seriouy. No lol.

Sansa is right there, and Brianne gives a fuck.

but what do you expect brienne to do? kidnap her out of the city? even talking to her could put either one of them in jeopardy. having brienne see sansa in kl doesn't mean much to be honest. she's hardly ruined since she's clearly off in a minute to find sansa and get her to safety. ironically, brienne mentions bringing sansa to the vale and that's exactly where she'll be. very grrm.

I wouldn't be surprised if Penny was cut altogether.

that would only mean someone else becomes tyrion's conscience. her role needs to happen to tyrion although since he isn't as grey on the show, it probably means less time required to find himself.

Still a dull wedding by Dothraki standards.

:)

aye, only 1 death! so boring. next time they should invite some freys. that ought to liven things up a bit. :eek:

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I've always thought that Tywin must have secretly been quite relieved that Joffrey was dead. Joffrey grown into adulthood with total power was a scary prospect; Joffrey would have had no qualms about killing Lannisters, including Tywin himself.

Does Tywin's underwhelming/non-reaction to Joffery's death, and the chumminess between Olenna and Tywin give any credence to the Tywin knew about the purple wedding theory?

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Does Tywin's underwhelming/non-reaction to Joffery's death, and the chumminess between Olenna and Tywin give any credence to the Tywin knew about the purple wedding theory?

Doesn't mean he was in on it but he's probably not sorry it happened.

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Well, the logistics are easier in the show PW, since Marge isn't sharing that huge-ass goblet of wine with Joffrey. It is surmised from the books that she had to have been in the know, else there'd be the risk that she'd be poisoned, too. But they weren't sharing on the show, which means that they can preserve Marge's "innocence" of the plot.


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Does Tywin's underwhelming/non-reaction to Joffery's death, and the chumminess between Olenna and Tywin give any credence to the Tywin knew about the purple wedding theory?

Yes

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I actually thought the show made it "obvious" that Olenna did it. But then again, that's to a person who has known that fact for 14 years.... so ...

See, that's what bothers me. While I couldn't see the gem missing, it was obvious what she was doing. To the point that none of Tyrions interactions with the cup are done in a way where he could have poisoned it. I mean, the first pour is in front of Tywin & Cersei, the 2nd in front of everyone. There's no ambiguity with the way it was done.

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