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[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

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And actually, there's a HUGE audio clue: As the QoT walks by the main table after touching Sansa's necklace (there also a quick scene of the necklace WITHOUT one of the gems, you can see the empty gem holder), she drops her hand, and you can hear a "plink" as she drops the gem into something (I think it was the wine bottle itself). It's rather subtle, I had to rewind to listen again.

Then why did the poisoning take so long?

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Bronn was a nice sub in for Ser Ilyn to practice with Jaime.



The consistent camera nods to the new Tommen were a nice indicator that the Purple Wedding was about to go down.



The Ramsay/Roose/Reek (R cubed???) relationship was awesome. What a great clash those characters have together.



I felt like Joff's coughing could've been better which is a weird thing to nitpick about I know but it just seemed really forced; however, that scene was pretty much word for word from the book which I respect and am not surprised about since GRRM wrote the episode.

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GRRM's episode was a bit of a misfire last season but this one was pretty great. What a horribly uncomfortable wedding peppered in with some great character interaction and performances.



Very interesting they didn't have the reveal that Joffrey was behind the plot to kill Bran. I actually wondered last year if they would reveal this as they had showed Joffrey being an even greater shit on the show that revealing the Bran thing would garner no real surprise.



Looks like we're seeing the birth of Batshit Crazy Cersei. Not just the end with her father but her ability to make stupid decisions by deciding that the leftovers would go to the kennels instead of the poor.



Terrific performance by Peter Dinklage but I'm getting tired of the show portraying him as a total angel.



The Bolton interaction was shown and was a good look at how the minds of Roose and Ramsay function. Of course Ramsay and Locke would get along just great. Very interesting that the plotting against Jon is beginning now. This storyline should be good this year. Alfie Allen is handling the Reek stuff well.


Loved Loras burning Jaime with the "Neither will you!" line.



No dwarves on pigs but that "War of Five Kings" bit was brutal.



Sophie Turner didn't have much dialogue tonight but did a hell of a job with her non-verbal reactions.



Given the shows lack of subtlety, it was nice that they didn't give away who had poisoned Joffrey at all. Next week's preview seems to imply that Maegarey didn't know about it after all.



Best of luck to Jack Gleeson. He brought his best to the role tonight, showing Joffrey in all his degenerate "glory."


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Because we don't have the benefit of Tyrion's POV of the wedding where it's clear he has no involvement in what's happening, I think the show will clarify very quickly that Tyrion is innocent.


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If he tells her it's to save her life, she'll just protest that she can protect herself etc.

He's being cruel to be kind.

I thought it was extremely stupid, and she isn't that dumb in the show. My sister and father will kill you, so you have to get on the boat, end of discussion is much more sensible than what they did.

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I also have to remark that the Ramsey and Roose scene was nicely done. I was wary about spending so much time at the Dreadfort, but I liked it.

It was, but I'm confused about Myranda. She was one of the girls from Theon's castration scene last year, but she can't be the same Myranda who's friends with Mya Stone, right?

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I was seriously expecting more intense grief from Cersei; it seemed like she went from numbness to rage against Tyrion without the horror and pain I would think she'd feel on the death of her firstborn.



But in general, good job with the wedding and festivities. Loved the Oberyn/Tywin/Cersei confrontation, Loras and Jaime (and what was going on between Oberyn and Loras - Oberyn looking at Loras like Loras was dessert). Great acting from whasisname playing Ramsay when Roose introduced Fat Walda to him; that gleeful evil smile and the glint in his eyes. If I were Walda, I'd go home to the Twins.



Don't know what's going on with Shae; but it's likely, as others have suggested, that Tywin got a hold of her and bribed Bronn to lie to Tyrion. Though that makes Bronn worse than he was in the books; where he did not act for Tyrion in ASOS but he didn't double-cross him either.


Edited by Raksha 2014

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Hey, it's 60 inches, not 80! :p

Got a 70 not that size matters to a guy or anything, but mines bigger, it's bigger, hahaha seriously my tv is huge. Sometimes I have to watch stuff twice because it's so big I can only watch half the screen at one time.

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hmmm, I thought it was a bit underwhelming compared to the books. The build up was good, but the actual moment... Cersei's reaction was a bit off, too. She was fine at the end, but she was just staring at Joff when he was dying, in the books she's in panic, screaming.



It was good overall, not amazing. I think they did better with the RW, despite the fact it was very different from the books.



Also, the actress who plays Shae is the most unconvincing at crying.


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I understand why they changed most of the things, including Sir Illyn, but two things I don't get:



1) Why Melisandre was burning Ser Axell Florent, instead of Ser Alester, and why he suddenly became Selyse's brother. Also, Stannis didn't command his death because he was a sinner (which would make him more of a fanatic), but because he tries to negotiate a peace treaty with Tywin Lannister behind Stannis' back.



2) Why Lady Olenna doesn't put her hands on Sansa's necklace, to remove one of the gems, possibly containing the poison that killed Joffrey.


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Well Tyrion touches the cup and wine, Sansa touches the cup and the thorn in the Lions paw is sitting right next to the cup when Tyrion picks it up off the table to give to Joff. They make sure she is in the shot.

The problem is, you can't poison someone's cup just by touching the stem or the bowl of the cup. If the QoT did it, she did it off screen.

But my whole original point was the fact that he should have started coughing before he drank the wine, because I belong to the faction that believes the pie was poisoned, not the wine. Of course, there are whole threads on that issue.

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The entire wedding was great. Loved the entire build-up to the final shot. Joffrey looked like a fucking zombie.



And darkside Tyrion discarding Shae. That's going to be ugly.



Wish people would cut it out with the 'whitewashing' of Tyrion bullshit. If he doesn't end up killing Shae, complain all you want, but at least wait until the damn episode airs before you start whining.


Edited by Blood Loss

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Guys there was a Regime Change Boar during the scene with Tyrion and Jaime.



Omg!! Bronn trains Jaime! Omg! Lord Oaf! Omg...Bran's sequence! Bloodraven voiceover! Omg everything.

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Decent episode, some good visuals. Lena and Jack were great. Joffrey's face was gruesome, pretty much how I always pictured it.

My favorite part was definitely Bran and the Weirwood tree, very cool scene. Bloodraven!!!

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I also found it interesting that Bran is starting to get visions. In the first season the producers were so strongly against giving him dreams, for whatever reasons, but it looks like they can no longer avoid it. Snow on the throne, dragons over King's Landing. Interesting stuff.


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Because we don't have the benefit of Tyrion's POV of the wedding where it's clear he has no involvement in what's happening, I think the show will clarify very quickly that Tyrion is innocent.

You can see that is exactly what happens in the "next week on..." segment following the credits. Margaery and Olenna are having a heated discussion.

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I am convinced the new queen put the poison in the cup after getting it from grandma.



His death scene was great And bonus? Something that actually happened.


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I was seriously expecting more intense grief from Cersei; it seemed like she went from numbness to rage against Tyrion without the horror and pain I would think she'd feel on the death of her firstborn.

yes, i think they should have had her grieving more before she went into her rage. too rushed.

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I understand why they changed most of the things, including Sir Illyn, but two things I don't get:

1) Why Melisandre was burning Ser Axell Florent, instead of Ser Alester, and why he suddenly became Selyse's brother. Also, Stannis didn't command his death because he was a sinner (which would make him more of a fanatic), but because he tries to negotiate a peace treaty with Tywin Lannister behind Stannis' back.

2) Why Lady Olenna doesn't put her hands on Sansa's necklace, to remove one of the gems, possibly containing the poison that killed Joffrey.

Number 1 who knows, but number 2 she does. Just rewatch...the far right jewel is missing and you can see Olenna briefly touch it

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