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[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

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In my mind, it goes something like this...

[sansa points her dagger at Littlefinger's chest]

Sansa: Offer me money.

Littlefinger: Yes!

Sansa: Power, too, promise me that.

Littlefinger: All that I have and more. Please...

Sansa: Offer me anything I ask for.

Littlefinger: Anything you want...

[sansa plants the dagger into Littlefinger's stomach]

Sansa: I want my father back, you son of a bitch!

:rofl: :agree:

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After Olenna takes the stone, as she is walking pass Joffrey's cup you head a distinct "Cling" sound as if something solid touched a chalice if your volume is high enough. Olenna took the stone and slipped it in the cup. I just don't know how the stone dissolved in the cup. Marg didn't do anything but she definitely knew the plan.

Why is everyone so obsessed by this random sound? That sound you hear could be anything BUT Olenna dropping the Strangler into anything.

Why? Because at that point, the dwarf joust hasn't even happened yet, let alone Joffrey pouring wine onto Tyrion's head, then demanding Tyrion be his cupbearer, Joffrey dropping the cup onto the floor and kicking it away from Tyrion, Sansa picking it up and handing the now very empty cup (since Joffrey poured it all on Tyrion), so how in Seven Hells would the poison still be in the cup at that point?

And no, she didn't drop it into a shared wine carafe that everyone at the table was sharing.

Random sound is random.

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Why is everyone so obsessed by this random sound? That sound you hear could be anything BUT Olenna dropping the Strangler into anything.

Why? Because at that point, the dwarf joust hasn't even happened yet, let alone Joffrey pouring wine onto Tyrion's head, then demanding Tyrion be his cupbearer, Joffrey dropping the cup onto the floor and kicking it away from Tyrion, Sansa picking it up and handing the now very empty cup (since Joffrey poured it all on Tyrion), so how in Seven Hells would the poison still be in the cup at that point?

And no, she didn't drop it into a shared wine carafe that everyone at the table was sharing.

Random sound is random.

I think they were assuming it was a poison other than the strangler and therefore Joff drank the poison before the joust, but the side effects didn't occur until later. However, the more I look into it the more it seems that the strangler was used and Margery most likely gave it to him right after he cut the pie.

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Side note: If Olenna put the poison in after she took it off of Sansa, wouldn't it have been wasted when he poured the wine on Tyrion's head?

So when the fuck did she pass it to Margaery? She was at another table. No way she got up off her ass and planted it in the drink when Joffrey was slicing the bird cake.

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So when the fuck did she pass it to Margaery? She was at another table. No way she got up off her ass and planted it in the drink when Joffrey was slicing the bird cake.

Misdirection during any number of moments. Just walking over to Marg and giving her a hug or talking to her would not have been misconstrued. Lots of people were moving around at different points between 'events' like dwarf play and pie cutting.

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what can happen in episode 10 that isso effects heavy? The stuff at The Vale?

My guess is that, along with Lady Stoneheart, baby-eating dragons, Arya & The Hound part ways, Tyrion testing out becoming a serial-killer, and Bran meeting Blood Raven.

Edited by Moët

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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but with Jaime's line about how Mace & Tywin should marry...is show Mace single like Tywin? I know there has been no mention of Garlan and Willas, so maybe they'll not include Alerie too.



House Hightower has always been interesting to me, and if the show ends up spoiling future events, I want to see what Leyton and Malora are doing in Oldtown.


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My guess is that, along with Lady Stoneheart, baby-eating dragons, Arya & The Hound part ways, Tyrion testing out becoming a serial-killer, and Bran meeting Blood Raven.

This season is definitely going to be EXPLOSIVE. So many huuuge events in the characters lives.

Also - will Arya reach Braavos in the last ep? Didn't the season trailers show the Titan of Braavos?

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Couldn't agree more with you. When Sansa is done explaining how horrible Joffrey is I believe Olenna says "What a pity." I always read that as, oh what a pity we'll have to kill him then. Olenna is quite the badass.

This, exactly this....

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There is a fail of the director episode or some kind of magic because the cup is disappear for a moment.

Here we can see where the cup will be placing. We have two plates, one with yellow fruits (apricots?) and one with some mixed dried fruits. There is a sword sheath too.

Joffrey's taking the sword, and we see other stuff on the kings table. Margaery cup with wine, and some big, red pillow.

Margaery trying put off the cup between two plates with fruits.

Now we going to cut the pie. We see red pillow, Margaery cup, two plates... and where is the cup?

One second later we see whole kings table. Still no cup.

Tyrion is looking for. Where it is?

Here it is.Magic cup. Near plate with dried fruits, and sword sheath. Or maybe on the another table, just perspective lying?

On this table?

Where he found it?

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There is a fail of the director episode or some kind of magic because the cup is disappear for a moment.

Here we can see where the cup will be placing. We have two plates, one with yellow fruits (apricots?) and one with some mixed dried fruits. There is a sword sheath too.

Joffrey's taking the sword, and we see other stuff on the kings table. Margaery cup with wine, and some big, red pillow.

Margaery trying put off the cup between two plates with fruits.

Now we going to cut the pie. We see red pillow, Margaery cup, two plates... and where is the cup?

One second later we see whole kings table. Still no cup.

Tyrion is looking for. Where it is?

Here it is.Magic cup. Near plate with dried fruits, and sword sheath. Or maybe on the another table, just perspective lying?

On this table?

Where he found it?

That is some interesting frame captures.

Since the scene and it's sequencing are so important , I can't image they made any continuity errors, tho I know they have made them in the past but Graves, Dave and Dan, and editor Katie Weiland eyes would have been in on the cutting.

(I am supposing Bryan Cogman too.)

Also this (again!)

Hollywood Reporter:It's a mystery who killed Joffrey. If they look closer at this scene, will viewers be able to figure out who's responsible for the poisoning?

Alex Graves:" I tried to shoot it and then edit in such a way that so that if they reveal later in the season who did it, it makes sense. If you watch what's going on, where the killer is and when, you'll go, "Oh, it's happening and progressing visually." It's not like you see it happen, because of the way he dies, but you will notice the movements and the adjustments."

I don't think a mistake was made.

Edited by boojam

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Hey guys huge ASOIAF fan

First time post very nice to join you all, I would like you all to closely watch the purple wedding scenes over and over. The only time the joffrey was able to be poisoned was as soon as margaery takes the cup form his hands and puts it on the table. Margaery is looking directly into joffreys eyes and she drops the crystal in (whilst joff has his back turned to his family) I'm 99% sure she puts it in the second her hands take the goblet from joff.

I could be wrong though but it's the only time possible for the poison to be dropped in if it is fast acting, there was simply no other time. I've come to this conclusion after rewatching the entire purple wedding scenes and going back and forth, very neatly done and it makes for very interesting viewing and reviewing, D&D and GRRM and the writers are knocking it out of the park, the dialogue is still as awesome as before but things are getting worse which is played out by the characters perfectly well imo.

Edited by serdontosdared

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What bugs me about this is that the scene is NOT improved by not being sure how this came down. I can't precisely remember my reaction when I read this part, or when I knew what, but I was sure it was one of those amethyst jewels that did the deed. There are already a long, long list of mysteries in these books, why add one more when we must know so much in order to even follow the sequence of events? I can see Sansa wearing that beautiful hair net and a close up of Oleanna's fingers plucking one off, which is certainly more believable than her removing a huge jewel which has to be solidly affixed in order not to fall off.



This has been driving me crazy. I have been watching over and over with slow motion, freeze framing the film, on big screen and small computer scene and while there are plenty of visual clues in that Oleanna is in the side or background, there is nothing clear and not a single shot makes anything crystal clear. Pieta's shots above are the best.



Mystery on top of mystery makes for annoyance in the long run.



My money is on Marg. If she had any doubts, Joffrey's performance at the reception was so outrageous that she might have realized she had to take her chance to


Edited by BlueDragon

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There is a fail of the director episode or some kind of magic because the cup is disappear for a moment.

Here we can see where the cup will be placing. We have two plates, one with yellow fruits (apricots?) and one with some mixed dried fruits. There is a sword sheath too.

Joffrey's taking the sword, and we see other stuff on the kings table. Margaery cup with wine, and some big, red pillow.

Margaery trying put off the cup between two plates with fruits.

Now we going to cut the pie. We see red pillow, Margaery cup, two plates... and where is the cup?

One second later we see whole kings table. Still no cup.

Tyrion is looking for. Where it is?

Here it is.Magic cup. Near plate with dried fruits, and sword sheath. Or maybe on the another table, just perspective lying?

On this table?

Where he found it?

Marg clearly puts it on her table at the far end, a good 10 feet from Olenna. The shot of Olenna looking at it is sneaky perspective.

Logically, Marg would have been the one to do it, because she was the only one touching the cup in between the wine being dumped on Tyrion's head and Joff drinking again (other than Tyrion, who we know is innocent). There was also a guard right there. However, I'm thinking there might have been a continuity error, and they'll have Olenna being the one doing it, based purely on the interviews we've seen.

It doesn't make a huge difference: a Tyrell woman did this. But it is frustrating that after several rewatches there's nothing conclusive.

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Marg clearly puts it on her table at the far end, a good 10 feet from Olenna. The shot of Olenna looking at it is sneaky perspective.

Logically, Marg would have been the one to do it, because she was the only one touching the cup in between the wine being dumped on Tyrion's head and Joff drinking again (other than Tyrion, who we know is innocent). There was also a guard right there. However, I'm thinking there might have been a continuity error, and they'll have Olenna being the one doing it, based purely on the interviews we've seen.

It doesn't make a huge difference: a Tyrell woman did this. But it is frustrating that after several rewatches there's nothing conclusive.

I thought maybe somebody had photoshoped those grabs.

But I just stepped through the sequence.

Sure enough Marg does set in on the end of the table, tho, we dont see her let go of it.

Then sure nuf it is magically gone!

There are indeed some missing camera POVs.

It does look as if it is magically back on the end of the royal couples table when Tyrion picks it up, but don't know if it's forced perspective or not, it does not look like it's in the same place Marg set it down, if she set it down.

This kind of visual narrative is not exactly in the book, but then giving all the visual details on the page can make the writing seem awkward.

Anyway , I think we know , pretty sure, that at least LF , Marg and QoT are involved ... others, I don't know.

How it was done, has a front end, but a magicians back end!

Edited by boojam

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Does anybody here ever ask this?

It does seem if Joffrey was indeed poisoned , not sure how good forensics were in GRRM world?!

Where did the poison come from?

The books says, in order, FM knew the most and supposedly had everything on hand , the Maesters were just about a well equipped and knowledgeable, then random folk, such as Oberyn ... a few others knew.

Now KL is big a FM could be anywhere, but seems an unlikely suspect.

KL have other Maesters besides Grand Maester Pycelle, a possible suspect?

Qyburn , studied to be a Maester, seems he nearly made it... a very good suspect.

As I said KL is large, so not telling what kind of black market there is there.

Edited by boojam

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