[Book Spoilers] - About Ramsay and Roose conversation

[I'll pay the iron price]

I don't see how it can be a plot hole when it is the actual point of the scene. He didn't cut Ramsay's throat when he had the perfect opportunity and reason to. That in itself proves how broken he is.

Yes, Theon is well and truly a victim of Stockholm Syndrome

[RhaenysBee]

I get what your saying about him with Jeyne, but wasn't that at a later point in the book? I know he was still very messed up even at the end of ADWD, but I guess I thought he had improved his mental health from the beginning of the book. I felt like right when we were introduced to "Reek" in the books (like we just were in the show) he never would have dared rebel against Ramsay. The thought of what Ramsay would do to him if he rebelled seemed to overtake any other emotions he had at the time.

I know. And you are right.

Only, Ramsay would be DEAD if he rebelled and cut his throat with the razor, so he wouldn't do anything to him. And Roose wouldn't go on with the Reek stuff. Obviously, how could Theon know that. Dunno why this bugs me, it's kinda straightforward, if you look at it from a logical point of view.

[Cold Hands warm heart]

I am going with the "Based on the Books" for the tv show. I just hope it does not become "loosely" . The Locke character's role confuses me in that others in his arena, would of been far more interesting. The Mountain, Vargo, and I did like the idea of the Bear eating him .

[I'll pay the iron price]

I am going with the "Based on the Books" for the tv show. I just hope it does not become "loosely" . The Locke character's role confuses me in that others in his arena, would of been far more interesting. The Mountain, Vargo, and I did like the idea of the Bear eating him .

Someone suggested to me that perhaps Locke will fall foul of the Thenns!

[Hath4]

That scene was gold. It was Jaime/Tywin/deer skinning all over again. Badass dad scolds son who displeased him. Both actors did an absolutely stunning job and Alfie Allen's performance was priceless too.

My "problem" with the scene was that I laughed. I'm not sure I'm supposed to laugh. I didn't laugh reading this in the books. But show-Ramsay cracks me up. The actor is so genius that I keep laughing and laughing and somehow, no matter how gruesome the Theon torture and the whore-hunting both were, my attention is entirely on what a freaking amazing acting this guy does. Of course the script is responsible too because the show focuses on portraying Ramsay as comic relief while the book focused on his sadistic and brutal side. With the graphic torture scenes previous season that was sort of kept in balance, you could see Ramsay's mad outbursts, in this episode though, I just kept laughing. When he greeted Walda and kissed her cheek, when he and Lock (the two maniacs) greeted each other like best buddies, when told Theon about Robb... In a way, he is like Vargo Hoat was in the books. A sicko sadist bastard you couldn't help but love because he was so funny. Not sure if it's being done intentionally since Lock wasn't funny in any way (except now when he said "Who the fuck's Jon Snow?") and they are making up for that through Ramsay...

My problem (without quotation marks) with the scene was Theon not cutting Ramsay's throat when he was given the blade AND told about Robb's death. I know, the mental state, the fear, the damaged mind, but it still seems to me like a big gaping plot hole. Maybe because in the show we didn't get five paragraphs of My name's Reek it rhymes with freak and further stuff to stress how very damaged Theon is. But really, even in the books there was still rebellion in him with the Jeyne business.

I didn't find ramsay funny when he fed that poor girl to his bitches and I don't think the audience did.

[RhaenysBee]

I didn't find ramsay funny when he fed that poor girl to his bitches and I don't think the audience did.

No, I didn't either, that's why I didn't mention that scene when listing the scenes I found funny, you see.

[Janicia]

I thought we were going to have a Ramsay outburst when Roose upbraided him, but Ramsay kept his temper. I think it will be scary when Ramsay does lose it though.

I think we saw in this episode that if the Boltons did capture Yara, she would be Roose's prisoner and would not be subjected to Ramsay, at least not at first. But if her uncle refused to ransom her and Roose came to believe that she lacked strategic value...

[ViennaGirl]

I don't like Ramsey partnering with Myranda, although I thought the hunting scene was very brutal and incredibly well done. I think of him as the leader of that horrible little gang of men. Adding a woman adds a sexual element that I don't think Ramsey would experience - I know he loves to rape and torment women (and men), but trusting a woman or working with one doesn't seem like it would be part of his MO. But to the extent that I'm able to watch the Ramsey scenes, I think he's doing a great job.

[Onna Lewyys]

Yes, there's definitely a degree of horrific misogyny in Ramsay's character that's diminished by Myranda's presence. It's awful, but I kind of hope he kills her soon.

[Hath4]

Yes, there's definitely a degree of horrific misogyny in Ramsay's character that's diminished by Myranda's presence. It's awful, but I kind of hope he kills her soon.

I don't really agree he still his doing the hunting girls for sport thing. the dialogue such as we half to reward the hounds and down girls down obviously applies that he does this a lot. as he does in the books. Myranda really is not a normal girl she is a sadist. we don't know how ramsay would react in the books if he came upon a girl that also enjoyed sadism.

[Onna Lewyys]

Well, of course the misogyny is still there. I just don't think it's as blatant as it could be (and is in the books). But that's a relatively small nit. I still think Ramsay is a complete monster.

[Cold Hands warm heart]

Since this show seems to be epic in foreshadowing , bringing the Thenns in the way they did, I wonder who they shall eat. If karma serves a purpose, let it be Ramsey.

[Raksha 2014]

Yes, there's definitely a degree of horrific misogyny in Ramsay's character that's diminished by Myranda's presence. It's awful, but I kind of hope he kills her soon.

I'm sure Ramsay will soon oblige you...

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

I know. And you are right.

Only, Ramsay would be DEAD if he rebelled and cut his throat with the razor, so he wouldn't do anything to him. And Roose wouldn't go on with the Reek stuff. Obviously, how could Theon know that. Dunno why this bugs me, it's kinda straightforward, if you look at it from a logical point of view.

This is true. I guess it's difficult to say given that he's not provided the same opportunity in the books obviously. In the end I didn't have a problem with the scene just because I really want the unsullied to understand how mentally crippled he is at this point and I thought the scene got the point across pretty well.

[Onna Lewyys]

I know. And you are right.

Only, Ramsay would be DEAD if he rebelled and cut his throat with the razor, so he wouldn't do anything to him. And Roose wouldn't go on with the Reek stuff. Obviously, how could Theon know that. Dunno why this bugs me, it's kinda straightforward, if you look at it from a logical point of view.

You can't assign logic to emotional disorders. Theon is paralyzed by fear. What if he doesn't cut deep enough? What if the blade isn't sharp enough? What if he drops it? Those are the kinds of things that go through his head in the book. I know that doesn't exactly translate to the screen without voiceover or something, but surely it's not hard to imagine?

[Lady Baela Targaryen]

The latest interview with Michael McElhatton (http://zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_season_4_michael_mcelhatton_dishes_on_ramsays_impossible_task-2014-04):

"Now that we've all had a couple of days to get our obsessing of Joffrey's death out of our systems, it's time to start examining some of the other major developments in Sunday's "Game of Thrones" episode. While "The Lion and the Rose" ended with the death of one of the show's major villains, it also showed Ramsay Snow being at his most disturbed.

Following Ramsay's hunt of one of his former followers, he proves his worth to his father, Roose Bolton. Though Ramsay's maiming of Theon is something Roose initially considers to be a mistake, Ramsay proves that turning Theon into Reek is actually a good move for his family.

This is the second time people close to Roose have done what he considers a bad call with their prisoners, which explains why he is so irritated with his bastard son initially. Michael McElhatton, who plays Bolton, discusses with Zap2it Roose's mentality when he reunites with his bastard son.

"[Roose] trades two people: He trades Jaime and he trades Theon, who were both sons of very, very wealthy, powerful men. Both are maimed, interestingly enough, and he chastises both Locke and Ramsay for maiming both parties. He's furious with Locke for cutting off the hand -- 'You've damaged the merchandise' -- and the same with Ramsay and Theon," McElhatton says.

He continues of Roose's test for Ramsay, "I think we find out in that scene in episode 2 that, initially, he thinks the guy is just a psycho, and then he realizes, by the end, the thing that's revealed [with Theon as Reek]. So he offers [Ramsay] what he thinks is an almost impossible task to take Moat Cailin."

Season 4 episode 2 is the first time McElhatton acted opposite Alfie Allen as Reek, and he admits it's a transformation that's a bit disturbing to witness in person. "I think Alfie does a brilliant job portraying him," McElhatton says. "You wonder, how is he going to come back? Is he going to come back from that, or can you come back from that, having endured all the mental and physical torture and debauchery that he's gone through?"

McElhatton already explored Roose's interesting relationship with Ramsay with Zap2it, and admits feels like the new Warden of the North has some love for the Bastard of Bolton. But he also thinks Ramsay could be Roose's downfall.

"Ramsay could be his Achilles heel. We'll see," McElhatton says. "George [R.R. Martin] hasn't written it yet, but 'love at your peril' would be a good motto for 'Game of Thrones.' Anybody who has any affection or care for anything."

He calls the relationship between Roose and Ramsay "very Shakespearean," and promises a payoff for their story arc before the end of Season 4. And while Joffrey might be dead, expect Roose and Ramsay to stick around for a while longer.

"Season 5 they say [Roose] comes into it a lot more, and we get into some dastardly stuff," McElhatton teases."

[RhaenysBee]

This is true. I guess it's difficult to say given that he's not provided the same opportunity in the books obviously. In the end I didn't have a problem with the scene just because I really want the unsullied to understand how mentally crippled he is at this point and I thought the scene got the point across pretty well.

Alfie Allen's acting is good enough to make you believe, I think. It's just that my attention was rather drawn away from that by Ramsay being entertaining and he's a damn good actor too.

You can't assign logic to emotional disorders. Theon is paralyzed by fear. What if he doesn't cut deep enough? What if the blade isn't sharp enough? What if he drops it? Those are the kinds of things that go through his head in the book. I know that doesn't exactly translate to the screen without voiceover or something, but surely it's not hard to imagine?

Yeah, I know. Not his feelings are logical, for the viewer to imagine what you described is logical: horrible mental and emotional state -> he's afraid -> he doesn't act. I was irrational enough to find it a bit strange though, which is probably due to having read the books and knowing how Roose treats Theon, how Theon develops later, etc.

[Frumpus]

Yes, there's definitely a degree of horrific misogyny in Ramsay's character that's diminished by Myranda's presence. It's awful, but I kind of hope he kills her soon.

I think she will die but I don't think they are setting Ramsay up to kill her.

I get the impression that Ramsay is very asexual and not interested in sex, only torture and murder. That could explain why he has a female companion who isn't just a bedslave.

[Ramsay Gimp]

He calls the relationship between Roose and Ramsay "very Shakespearean," and promises a payoff for their story arc before the end of Season 4. And while Joffrey might be dead, expect Roose and Ramsay to stick around for a while longer.

"Season 5 they say [Roose] comes into it a lot more, and we get into some dastardly stuff," McElhatton teases."

:drool:

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

The latest interview with Michael McElhatton (http://zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_season_4_michael_mcelhatton_dishes_on_ramsays_impossible_task-2014-04):

"Now that we've all had a couple of days to get our obsessing of Joffrey's death out of our systems, it's time to start examining some of the other major developments in Sunday's "Game of Thrones" episode. While "The Lion and the Rose" ended with the death of one of the show's major villains, it also showed Ramsay Snow being at his most disturbed.

Following Ramsay's hunt of one of his former followers, he proves his worth to his father, Roose Bolton. Though Ramsay's maiming of Theon is something Roose initially considers to be a mistake, Ramsay proves that turning Theon into Reek is actually a good move for his family.

This is the second time people close to Roose have done what he considers a bad call with their prisoners, which explains why he is so irritated with his bastard son initially. Michael McElhatton, who plays Bolton, discusses with Zap2it Roose's mentality when he reunites with his bastard son.

"[Roose] trades two people: He trades Jaime and he trades Theon, who were both sons of very, very wealthy, powerful men. Both are maimed, interestingly enough, and he chastises both Locke and Ramsay for maiming both parties. He's furious with Locke for cutting off the hand -- 'You've damaged the merchandise' -- and the same with Ramsay and Theon," McElhatton says.

He continues of Roose's test for Ramsay, "I think we find out in that scene in episode 2 that, initially, he thinks the guy is just a psycho, and then he realizes, by the end, the thing that's revealed [with Theon as Reek]. So he offers [Ramsay] what he thinks is an almost impossible task to take Moat Cailin."

Season 4 episode 2 is the first time McElhatton acted opposite Alfie Allen as Reek, and he admits it's a transformation that's a bit disturbing to witness in person. "I think Alfie does a brilliant job portraying him," McElhatton says. "You wonder, how is he going to come back? Is he going to come back from that, or can you come back from that, having endured all the mental and physical torture and debauchery that he's gone through?"

McElhatton already explored Roose's interesting relationship with Ramsay with Zap2it, and admits feels like the new Warden of the North has some love for the Bastard of Bolton. But he also thinks Ramsay could be Roose's downfall.

"Ramsay could be his Achilles heel. We'll see," McElhatton says. "George [R.R. Martin] hasn't written it yet, but 'love at your peril' would be a good motto for 'Game of Thrones.' Anybody who has any affection or care for anything."

He calls the relationship between Roose and Ramsay "very Shakespearean," and promises a payoff for their story arc before the end of Season 4. And while Joffrey might be dead, expect Roose and Ramsay to stick around for a while longer.

"Season 5 they say [Roose] comes into it a lot more, and we get into some dastardly stuff," McElhatton teases."

Thank you! Had missed that.

Juicy news about season 5 but it looks like Roose won't be featuring a lot this season again. Any idea in which episode he will come back? We will now follow Theon and Ramsay to Moat Caillin and Roose will stay in the Dreadfort.