A Balanced Review of Show Stannis [Book Spoilers]

[Lord Commander Coulson]

I'm still holding out hope for Stannis, personally.
None of his more negative lines ever seem to be given with much conviction, I still feel like he's using R'hilor as a means to an end.
The only moment I would absolutely like to do without is the creepfest that was Melisandre's departure to find Gendry.

[roxWolfox]

bullshit

it wasn't a fine scene, not in the context of comparing to the book character and not even in a show only context

telling he is a traitor who tried to sell daughter to the lannisters behind his back takes all of 2 lines more, but we are cutting into Podrik or whatever the kid is called staring at the dancer time and that's just important development we can't miss :rolleyes:

I don't know why the fuck we have to rehash the same argument about motivations mattering every damn year, I'm not sure if people just don't understand or if they choose not to understand because the character in question is an antagonist to their favorite Dany or Tyrion

but MOTIVATIONS MATTER, end of story, him burning a guy because he is a non believer is completely different than him burning a guy because he tried to betray him by selling his own daughter, if people can't see that i don't even know what to say

but whatever, lets ignore the character assassinations of a book character and just look at it form a pure 100% show perspective

okay, here you have a guy, burning people because they follow a different religion (and that's the only reason every stated in the show)

but if you think about it, his hand, one of his most trusted advisers some dare say friend that is standing right besides him at said burning has multiple times openly proclaimed that he still follows the seven, how the fuck is that not problematic? it makes him into a giant hypocrite, that's bad writing even if we completely ignore the existence of the books, it will be even worse in season 5 or 6 when half his army will be made up by similar non believers

Very good point. We won't know until we see more, but they have already said they'd be going to the Wall ... perhaps this part was just to set up the divisiveness that occurs once they get there, and how Stannis does draw a line to show he's not a fanatic and he'll only allow them to go so far to show their devotion. :dunno:

[Señor de la Tormenta]

By the way, stop using him not leting Selyse to beat Shireen as a good trait or a bone throwen to us.

We are like Reek, happy because at least they gave us a scene were Stannis decides his daughter is not going to suffer child abuse. Something that can be asumed from all other normal characters.

It looks like Hitler having a scene were he shows a soft side for dogs.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

"infidel" :bang:

would it have been to hard for him to go:

"he's a traitor, ser Davos. he had no right to try and broker a deal with the IT"

or something like that. its like 10 extra words. pssh. D&D is messin' up ya'll. Sorry my thugness is leaking i may have to visit a ER

[Enosh]

Except did HE burn them or was it Melisandre? Did Stannis allow the burnings because he feels that Melisandre is his only chance at claiming the throne. No army, navy or support outside a few on Dragonstone. Context matters. To assume that Stannis today is 1:1 with Stannis in season 5-6 is ludicrous.

he's the fucking king, the end decision is on him

yes, book stannis realizes that the red god has certain powers that he has seen, but that's why when presses for a burning he chooses someone that has already fucked up, instead of burning someone for being a non believer while a non believer stands at his side

[Cas Stark]

he's the fucking king, the end decision is on him

yes, book stannis realizes that the red god has certain powers that he has seen, but that's why when presses for a burning he chooses someone that has already fucked up, instead of burning someone for being a non believer while a non believer stands at his side

I considered this a very, very big distinction, D&D apparently, don't or as many believe, they dislike the character immensely and so as much as they have whitewashed the ones they like, they've done the opposite with Stannis.

[Widows_Blood]

I watched show Stannis burn his brother in law alive for being an infidel. I don't think any character could recover from that kind of blatant evil.

I'm not even that big a fan of book Stannis but all the great elements that make the character interesting and dynamic are gone. It would be the equivalent of show Theon having no love for the Starks from the very beginning and never being friends with Robb. It just ruins an entire aspect of that character that can never be recovered.

I would also like to note that I found the whole infidel scene to be especially offensive because of the way American viewers will interpret Stannis after hearing it. After 9/11 and everything else in the Middle East infidel is a word most Americans know and attribute to "evil" people.

You're not even stating what was interesting and dynamic with Stannis in the books, so what exactly is lost? I literally haven't seen a single person equate Stannis using the word infidel with him being a Taliban like extremist. Just like I have never seen a non-book reader think Stannis is evil. Most of the people I talk to about him think Stannis is a grumpy/hardass/awkward guy. Nowhere will you see people compare Stannis to the Taliban. This is once again manufactured outrage by people who have a messiah complex with Stannis. They build the character up in their head to be one thing and then lose their marbles once the show version does not exactly fit that mold.

[Widows_Blood]

I considered this a very, very big distinction, D&D apparently, don't or as many believe, they dislike the character immensely and so as much as they have whitewashed the ones they like, they've done the opposite with Stannis.

How can they hate Stannis though? They read the books. Why don't they see the interesting and dynamic character everyone else sees?

[Chebyshov]

How can they hate Stannis though? They read the books. Why don't they see the interesting and dynamic character everyone else sees?

Speak for yourself. I see a rather dour, unreasonable fellow myself.

[Cas Stark]

How can they hate Stannis though? They read the books. Why don't they see the interesting and dynamic character everyone else sees?

But everyone doesn't see the characters in the same way. I don't see Dany as Targaryen Jesus, LOL, but D&D give every impression of seeing her as a straight up savior figure. So, there is no reason they have to see that the good in Stannis outweighs the bad, they probably don't "hate" him, but their take seems to err on the side of negativity, TV Stan is weaker, less decisive, and more rash and much less "just" than Book Stan, at least by my count, and I'm not even really a Stannis fan.

[aFeastForDragons]

How can they hate Stannis though? They read the books. Why don't they see the interesting and dynamic character everyone else sees?

Same way they don't see the horrible selfish character Dany is. Instead they portray her as the second coming of Christ. Although the last episode finally had her advisors finally say some bad points about her but they were so subtle the audience might not have picked them up.

They are approaching the series as an opinionated fan rather than having a neutral view. They overhype certain characters while making others look bad. I think its unfair that Stannis is constantly brought up when Jon was very badly portrayed in season 3. He's just know as the depressive moaner who knows nothing now.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

You're not even stating what was interesting and dynamic with Stannis in the books, so what exactly is lost? I literally haven't seen a single person equate Stannis using the word infidel with him being a Taliban like extremist. Just like I have never seen a non-book reader think Stannis is evil. Most of the people I talk to about him think Stannis is a grumpy/hardass/awkward guy. Nowhere will you see people compare Stannis to the Taliban. This is once again manufactured outrage by people who have a messiah complex with Stannis. They build the character up in their head to be one thing and then lose their marbles once the show version does not exactly fit that mold.

Seeing as this is a Stannis thread stating THAT is rather redundant!

As, to everything else, these are all your personal experiences as well.

of course, ive never heard of him being called a "taliban" haha. I dont have many friends who watch the show but its very clear, atleast to them, that hes A bad guy. "messiah complex" hardly bro, most of us are pretty much in agreement that he's not perfect and that things are gonna most likely gonna end up bad for him. He's not complex is probably the biggest beef the "stans" have right now. There is nothing to his character, really!

hes a cartoon!

whats there to like?

[Chebyshov]

Seeing as this is a Stannis thread stating THAT is rather redundant!

As, to everything else, these are all your personal experiences as well.

of course, ive never heard of him being called a "taliban" haha. I dont have many friends who watch the show but its very clear, atleast to them, that hes the bad guy. "messiah complex" hardly bro, most of us are pretty much in agreement that he's not perfect and that things are gonna most likely gonna end up bad for him. He's not complex is probably the biggest beef the "stans" have right now. There is nothing to his character, really!

hes a cartoon!

whats there to like?

He's just Inspector Javert; a humorless, black-and-white man living in a world of grey. I will never understand his rabid fan-base. However, it is fair to say that D&D are going a bit overboard in their zealot portrayal.

[jons nissa]

How can they hate Stannis though? They read the books. Why don't they see the interesting and dynamic character everyone else sees?

what gives you the impression that everyone sees him that way? not even everyone on this forum agrees to that let alone the "universe".

[The Abominable SnowOther]

He's just Inspector Javert; a humorless, black-and-white man living in a world of grey. I will never understand his rabid fan-base. However, it is fair to say that D&D are going a bit overboard in their zealot portrayal.

you did not just go there :box:

haha, nah! really, though thats totally cool not everyone see him the way others do, and thats fine :cheers:

As to your comments i completely disagree hes not humorless, just, no one gets him and he IS grey! who wants black and white? but when people go: "rabid fan base" theres bound to be replies and then its us who are the annoying ones. can you see the problem there?

[David Selig]

Look, if the D&D want to hate Stannis or whoever as readers - fine, that's their call, I don't give a damn. But turning a complicated character into some poorly written villain is not fine at all.

Even from purely practical point of view burning people for refusing to convert is a terrible idea. How does Stannis hope to win the throne of a realm where nobody except few thousand people on Dragonstone follow other religions? Who would support him if it is known that he burns people who refuse to convert?

[Sunglass]

D&D are talking about Stannis in the Inside video ... very negative ...

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones#/game-of-thrones/episodes/4/32-the-lion-and-the-rose/video/inside-the-episode.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oUc-PSYEJBSSmp-ol5qYy5zMXsjGyMXIyMrJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIAXbkXOA==

[Thelastactionhero]

what gives you the impression that everyone sees him that way? not even everyone on this forum agrees to that let alone the "universe".

Most agree that he's at least more dynamic and interesting than he's being portrayed on the television show. if nothing else Stannis has way more nuance in the books, and I don't think that's debateable whatsoever, even if you don't like his character.

[Chebyshov]

D&D are talking about Stannis in the Inside video ... very negative ...

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones#/game-of-thrones/episodes/4/32-the-lion-and-the-rose/video/inside-the-episode.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oUc-PSYEJBSSmp-ol5qYy5zMXsjGyMXIyMrJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIAXbkXOA==

Actually, watching this made the whole "infidel" kerfuffle make more sense to me. They seem to get that he's a pragmatist, and to him, "trying things Mel's way" and fully accepting her god is a means to an end. I see why you view it as negative but this made that scene more sympathetic to me.

[Northernmonkey]

I still don't see show Stannis a a religious zealot. He never seems to say any of his lines with much conviction, and when Mel or Selyse say something religious he seems to be suppressing his contempt for them.

I'm a massive Stannis fan in the books, but I'm under no illusions - book Stannis is an absolute arsehole who burns people alive, but I like him despite all that. So I don't have a problem with D+D trying to make him a more dislikeable character, because he's not supposed to be a nice guy. It's testament to GRRM's brilliant writing that we all love Stannis despite him being a complete twat, and I love show Stannis as well.