A Balanced Review of Show Stannis [Book Spoilers]

[Chebyshov]

I'm not a Stannis fan, and I never really understood the complaints about Show!Stannis until last night. Even for me that was a bit over the top. Maybe they're doing it so his rescue of the NW will be all the more surprising?

There's also the fact that the show-runners know the end game. If this is their portrayal of Stannis, there's probably a reason for it, and it doesn't bode well for his supporters.

[jons nissa]

By ruining Stannis they are ruining Davos. One can understand why he belives in Stannis in the books. But in TV show? Why is he following a fanatic jerk?????

In books he sees a conflicted Stannis who struggles between killing or not Edric while three kings die...a time between Davos wins most of it....and it is Stannis the one who pardons his treason. Not mel. The loyalty is more understandable.....his kid is Stannis squire and been teached with Shireen. Still has a wife and more kids and is building them a future.

Now Davos has no problem to follow a religious taliban who treats him like shit and has no good in him.

actually i thought it was always abundantly clear that davos' loyalty to stannis came from his gift of land and title which was then topped off with a promotion to hand, all of which benefit his family enormously. he had to struggle with stannis' actions in the books and he struggles with them in the show but he does believe that stannis has the best intentions for westeros with the exception of the religious stuff. that's straight from the books.

By the way I never got why Davos needed a freaking ship to carry mel and the shadow baby if Renly and Stannis (and Mel) met at land the day before.

so that we could understand what and how these deaths were committed. and so that davos would have no doubts about the red witch.

[aFeastForDragons]

I think D & D deserve a weekend in the Dreadfort after that terrible scene. Going out of your way to make a character look bad just really puts me off this show and ruined the episode for me.

[The Drunkard]

Also, IIRC, Selyse was not married during the siege of Storm's End... WTF was that all about?

I'm not sure why, but they've talked about that before during one of those online history videos.

I'm not a Stannis fan, and I never really understood the complaints about Show!Stannis until last night. Even for me that was a bit over the top. Maybe they're doing it so his rescue of the NW will be all the more surprising?

There's also the fact that the show-runners know the end game. If this is their portrayal of Stannis, there's probably a reason for it, and it doesn't bode well for his supporters.

I think if they wanted to keep the NW save a surprise, or make it more of a surprise, they've gone about it completely backwards. The season 3 finale effectively broadcasted that Stannis would be heading north, while the books kept it somewhat dubious. After looking through some of the Unsullied threads it seems a lot of the people talking about Stannis are surprised he isn't travelling there already.

[aFeastForDragons]

In Season 2 Stannis said to Davos his wife was at Storm's End.

They've completely ruined the surprise of him going to the Wall. He doesn't look to be in any rush either since burning the traitor was to speed up their trip to the wall.

[AdmiraloftheDothrakiSea]

The name Alister takes longer to pronounce than Axel. And the time is tight. They're trimming all the fat they can in order to include an extra brothel scene or two.

Might be not to confuse with Alliser Thorne. Just like Asha was renamed Yara to not be confused with Osha

[JesterX]

The problem with cinema. Clearly the Stannis scene was just an "ok, Stannis is still here" scene just to show him. It really didn't add to his storyline at all. They weren't even talking about getting to the wall.

[AdmiraloftheDothrakiSea]

I was hoping that when Selyse asked Stannis if he remembers the Siege at Storm's End he'd go on a massive rant about everything he'd suffered and how he was basically trapped now. Although i think we'll get some of that in the next ep. Part of the reason why book Stannis is so popular is because of his devotion to duty and the shit luck he's had. They already ruined it in season 2 when he had some great lines

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I really don't know what to say about it. Davos is one of my book faves and by mucking up Stannis, they muck up Davos' story. I really don't see why the are portraying Selyse the way that they do, but they lost me with her portrayal when they had the babies in the jars last season. So, I don't know...I'm not a Stannis fan, but I can definitely see why his fans would be pissed. The whole thing is really weird.

[aFeastForDragons]

The problem with cinema. Clearly the Stannis scene was just an "ok, Stannis is still here" scene just to show him. It really didn't add to his storyline at all. They weren't even talking about getting to the wall.

I can imagine tons of TV fans wondering whats going on. Its almost as bad as skipping the battle of the fist and never mentioning anything about it again. Its just messy and lazy.

90% of us posters could write a better scene and thats a fact, not an opinion.

[Dragon of Valyria]

Man, Stannis, come on. He could've come up with a better reason to sacrifice the Florent than that. He definitely comes across as a weary fantastic who is just desperate to try anything that'll work. It destroys any respectability he may have had.

On the bright side, show Shireen is downright adorable and any scene with her is a joy. I loved seeing her contradict Melisandre. Nobody else stands up to her, except Davos.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Yeah this smells of D&D more than GRRM.

Why even have this scene, if they're not going to burn traitors or get better winds for the sail to the Wall. BTW according to SpoilerTV:

Episode 4.06 - The Laws of Gods and Men

Stannis and Davos set sail; Dany meets with supplicants; Tyrion faces down his father.

So there might be a lot more Dragonstone stuff to come. Also in the S04E03 preview we see a Stannis and Davos scene arguing. And the set sail could be leaving from Braavos (would make a lot more sense timeline wise). I think that there's a good chance that Stannis is going to appear in 6 episodes this season.

The stuff where Stannis talks about Axell being an infidel was total BS. Here's hoping for a redemption arc.

[Fez]

I think the scene was fine. Sure he called them "infidels," but he didn't seem like he really believed it. Rather, it sounded like he was trying to convince himself that it was fine to do; and that's the important part. There just isn't time to properly introduce the idea that they were traitors, and to just say that they are is rather abrupt.

[Cas Stark]

I think the scene was fine. Sure he called them "infidels," but he didn't seem like he really believed it. Rather, it sounded like he was trying to convince himself that it was fine to do; and that's the important part. There just isn't time to properly introduce the idea that they were traitors, and to just say that they are is rather abrupt.

Sure there is. All you have to do is say they are traitors and give the treasonous reasons they are being burned instead of call them infidels and give the reason they are being burned as religious.

The audience is going to react negatively to anyone being burned alive, there is no need to throw in the extra layer of Stannis himself being a religious extremist, except that D&D don't like the character.

[Fez]

Sure there is. All you have to do is say they are traitors and give the treasonous reasons they are being burned instead of call them infidels and give the reason they are being burned as religious.

The audience is going to react negatively to anyone being burned alive, there is no need to throw in the extra layer of Stannis himself being a religious extremist, except that D&D don't like the character.

But he doesn't come off as a religious extremist. He comes off as a guy grudging going along with Mel because he doesn't know what else to do. And when talking to Davos, he sounds more angry that they disobeyed him rather than what it was they did.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

*insert character assassination diatribe here*

[protar]

Mixed feelings about Stannis this episode. Burning Axel and co simply for being infidels rather than outright treason from the books is yet another black mark on Stannis' character, but on the other hand it's lightened a bit by his foul mood going about it and his comment about Shireen. I think they're making Shireen the centrepoint of Stannis' softer side on the show.

[kakoserrano]

Stannis is my favorite character from the books, because he is, like myself, a purist of the "right". In the books he's certainly driven by Melisandre, because she proved to him that her faith is powerful (shadow brother killing and stuff). That's why in the book he tolerates (and that's the key word) Mel's burning shit. Have you stop to analyse Stannis intonation when he say's that the guy was a "infidel" in yesterday's scene? Did He really mean when he called the guy "Infidel" or was he "tolerating" Mel's burning shit again?

It's an honest question, because I really love the actor portraing him and I think that in his conversation with Davos he's merely repeating words and not believing in what he's doing. But it could be my love for Stannis seing things wrong.

Don't blame completely for my poor english. It's not my first language and I'm bad in the first one to begin with...

[Seneti]

I think the scene was fine. Sure he called them "infidels," but he didn't seem like he really believed it. Rather, it sounded like he was trying to convince himself that it was fine to do; and that's the important part. There just isn't time to properly introduce the idea that they were traitors, and to just say that they are is rather abrupt.

Agreed. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Stannis looked like a caged rat surrounded by religious fanatics in that scene. He is clearly not enjoying burning those people. He clearly doesn't believe in Rhllor with all his heart. Every conversation he's ever had about the Red God eventually boiled down to "don't really believe in him, but Melisandre's magic works, so who am I to argue?"

Also, things they kept when adapting his character:

- his devotion to his wife and daughter

- his his respect for and friendship with Davos (mostly, at least)

- his absolute no-nonsense attitude and rigidity

So unless they screw up his big moment at the end of this season, I'm fine with show Stannis.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Stannis is not one of my favorites - book or show. In both though, I always got the feeling Stannis does not really believe in the Lord of Light, but he sees it as a means to an end. Doesn't he burn people when they are in the North though, for not converting to R'hllor? So maybe they are advancing that plot a bit with burning people now.
The behind the scenes with D&D for this episode sheds some more light on the intent behind the Stannis scenes. While watching it, I could hear the StanStans protesting. It's pretty clear it was not written by GRRM.