Is it just me or has the dialogue lost something?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The one issue I have with that is that Oberyn was focusing his invective at Lady Cersei and almost appeared cordial to Lord Tywin until then the end. It really seemed like a scene that had a lot more written for it originally and had to be pared back by a significant amount.

That's the point, he was appearing to be cordial and then drops a bomb, like hey by the way I'm coming for you too. I don't see why him picking on Cersei is out of the ordinary, especially when he knows this day is especially hard for Cersei since she's no longer really a queen and her son is being married off. He's just rubbing salt in the wounds.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

That's the point, he was appearing to be cordial and then drops a bomb, like hey by the way I'm coming for you too. I don't see why him picking on Cersei is out of the ordinary, especially when he knows this day is especially hard for Cersei since she's no longer really a queen and her son is being married off. He's just rubbing salt in the wounds.

I have no problem with that, it was just that he was apparently cordial to Tywin until the bomb was dropped, yet aggressive to Cersei from the start. Cersei's fault was snubbing Ellaria. Admittedly Tywin didn't but there is the whole dead babies/raped sister thing. The 4 actors were great. The writing really just felt as though there were a few lines 'missing' somehow.

[Eddard the Builder]

Nah not really. The show has always had its heavy handed moments i.e. season 1.

"Fish, the sigil of House Tully..."

"Tully, isn't that your wife's house? My lord Hand?"

[Modesty Lannister]

I think episode 1 was great, apart from Daenerys bit, which was something taken out of some sitcom with the new and unimproved Dario. The second episode though wasn't that great. Bran bit was bad. Bad acting (Bran), lack of any action (they just sit around in freezing cold or sleep!!!). PW felt totally anti-climatic. I think it was badly directed and that actors got confused about what they were supposed to do. Peter Dinklage was very lame, especially while delivering the dwarf line. While Joffrey was dying, Charles Dance was everywhere. In one shot he was covering Tommen's eyes (nice touch btw), in the other he seemed to be looking over his twins' shoulders to see dying Joffrey better. No continuity. Shae departing scene was the worst. Both Dinklage and the German girl were totally confused in what they were supposed to do, the dialogue was lame, psychology dubious at best. Again no continuity when it comes to Tyrion's feelings about Shae leaving reflected at the PW. The wedding itself did not seem grand at all to me visually. Again, I think it was bad directing. Finally, I think dialogues are the worst when the producers change the original idea, but cannot replace it with anything better. They had a solution for the Bolton change and it worked (Roose coming to Dreadfort with a small host while MC is still in the hands of the Ironborn).

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I have no problem with that, it was just that he was apparently cordial to Tywin until the bomb was dropped, yet aggressive to Cersei from the start. Cersei's fault was snubbing Ellaria. Admittedly Tywin didn't but there is the whole dead babies/raped sister thing. The 4 actors were great. The writing really just felt as though there were a few lines 'missing' somehow.

I see what you're saying. Unfortunately I've almost always felt that way about the show's dialogue, that there could be a couple more lines here and there but they condense it for the sake of saving time or whatever. It's especially obvious to us since in the books there are lots of relatively long conversations that have such great exchanges, the one that comes to mind being Oberyn and Tyrion's first conversation with the whole history between the Martells and Lannisters. But I suppose they thought it was just too long so reduced it to "Your father's pet killed my sister and children and now I've come to pay that debt."

[zeus]

Agree, i think there was something missing during this episode. In saying that i think most of the dialogue is just turning into sarcasm and bitchiness.

[MyLittleDirewolf]

Nah not really. The show has always had its heavy handed moments i.e. season 1.

"Fish, the sigil of House Tully..."

"Tully, isn't that your wife's house? My lord Hand?"

Yes, but they have to get this stuff in somehow. Other than having little thingys pop up like they do on Survivor, telling you the contestant's name and their age/occupation/team.

[Faydra]

I favour subtlety when it comes to threats among the nobles. I understand, however, why the dialogue between Lannisters and Martells held nothing like that. Their hatred has to be plain. Grasping these things is difficult for people who did not read the books.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

I thought most of Dave and Dan's dialog was good in episode 1 that season.

That is only episode 1.

Now episode 1 had the Arya and Hound tavern fight and dialog and that matched the best I have seen across four seasons.

Sandor's increasing irritation with Polliver was just a gem.

The 'chicken' thing became a sensation on the net and elsewhere.

Composition and dialog for that sequence was just perfect.

Well George did write episode 2, except for Tyrion's chiding Joffrey , which was spot on (is that from the book?), the wedding had pretty flat dialog. Well the whole sequence was mainly visual.

Other short pieces of dialog were good too.

(People complain about Kit and Emilia, but with a few exceptions, Sibel Kekilli is a wooden Indian, turning what might be good dialog into flat beer, maybe it is her problem with English?)

I don't know if Dave and Dan fiddled with it or George just zipped thru it, or Alex Graves just was too busy with the complexity of the shooting of the wedding to ask for better dialog?

One thing I don't know about the episode directors ,I recognize their names and know some of their work, they all seem very competent , but I don't know if any of them are 'actors directors' too? I mean we do have evidence that multiple takes are shot, and it's not true of a lot of feature film directors, but there are movie directors who will tweak, suggest, cajole, so on actors about delivery and projection.

Some actors don't need this ... I think of Dance and Rigg on the show, Peter and other veteran actors too....

But as has been noted, Kit and Emilia seem to be just giving just a competent reading of the script at times.

Kit seems to be a John Wayne type, Kit playing Kit, but that's ok with me I liked John Wayne.

Emilia drives me a little crazy, she nailed Dracarys!, S3E4, but has seemed off her mark this season, as she has been before, except season 1.

Everybody seems to have a tough time , with exceptions, writing dialog for the 'Across the Narrow Sea' sequences.

But then Benioff & Weiss wrote "And Now His Watch Is Ended" and "The Rains of Castamere" (the RW excited them) , when there are scenes that get their juices going they are sharp with the dialog.

By the by, Carice van Houten finally nailed "The Night is ....." this episode, I always remember Season 2 when she gave it an almost falling inflection which went down with a thud. I don't know if that was Alan Taylor's fault or hers. But she sure hit the mark this time and Taylor was directing again. Seems van Houten has gotten more enthusiastic about the role than she was in season 2.

That's interesting. Episode 4.2 was directed by Alex Graves, who also directed 3.4 (mutiny at Craster's) and 3.5, and is the director for 4.3, 4.8, and 4.10. In GoT's stable of top-flight television directors, Graves and Tim Van Patten (1.1 and 1.2) would be considered by many to be the best of the bunch (excluding Neil Marshall who belongs in a category of his own).

But I'd have to agree with the general sentiment that the exchange between Tyrion and Joffrey was awkward and bad, and Cersei's 'zero to bitchy' moment after Joffrey's death may be the most laughable moment of the entire series (which is really saying something when you consider how truly God-awful Emilia Clarke is at her job).

[JoramunsKazoo]

I actually appreciated the scenes that dropped dialog. To me, the actor's expressions really made this episode rich. I felt extremely uncomfortable watching Joffery humiliate Tyrion, and watching all of Tyrion, Sansa, Tywin, and QoT's expressions to name a few. I felt that 2nd hand embarrassment and disgust as if I were at the tables myself.

Stannis is a different story, but whatever. Dragonstone was filler in this episode.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I actually appreciated the scenes that dropped dialog. To me, the actor's expressions really made this episode rich. I felt extremely uncomfortable watching Joffery humiliate Tyrion, and watching all of Tyrion, Sansa, Tywin, and QoT's expressions to name a few. I felt that 2nd hand embarrassment and disgust as if I were at the tables myself.

Stannis is a different story, but whatever. Dragonstone was filler in this episode.

I'm still trying to figure out what the whole scene with Mel and Shireen was for, adorable as Shireen is, I just don't get why it was included.

[Legion of Doom]

I thought there was something lacking when Joffrey and Tyrion interacted during the wedding. For some reason it just didn't feel as tense as their previous spats, which is disappointing considering this is the point where they're really supposed to push each other.

I'm not sure whether it was something wrong with the actors' performances, the writing/directing, or simply a case of viewers seeing the two clash so many times that it's lost its impact.

I can kind of see what you mean, but that may have been because we knew what was coming-unless you didn't, in which case not sure what was up. But knowing how that fight was going to end obviously altered the dynamic a bit for me. I think the writing is sharp as ever and episode two was written by GRRM.

[Daenerys Must Die]

I'm just waiting for Cogman's episodes .. I think his last was Kissed by Fire last season which was a gem .. and he's been given more episodes (2 or 3?) since they've cut the other writers who were underwhelming for me.

So far 4x01 was very good - was able to rely a bit on comic relief which is always helpful but still requires good writing to be effective.

4x02 a bit disappointing but at the same time it was a big ask for all of these central characters to connect with each other at the wedding .. Roose/Ramsay/Theon was well written as were bits in between and ultimately thought Alex Graves directed a very tough wedding sequence well.

[Queen of Whores]

My biggest problem is how flat everything felt. It didn't feel like it was building up to any thing, or that the atmosphere was getting more intense. In the book it felt this way, but not on the show. Normally the show is very good at building tension and atmosphere, like Ned's coup in the throne room in 1x7 (one of my favourite scenes in the show), and the mutiny at Craster's, but here it just... fizzled out. I dunno. I was underwhelmed. Hopefully this failure was a one-off and the show goes back up to better quality.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I thought the prolonged silences and awkwardness between Tyrion and Joffrey were very tense, coupled with all the disgruntled leers from half the wedding party. My roommate who's Unsullied was on the edge of his seat because you could tell something drastic was going to happen.

[raj34]

I thought there was something lacking when Joffrey and Tyrion interacted during the wedding. For some reason it just didn't feel as tense as their previous spats, which is disappointing considering this is the point where they're really supposed to push each other.

I'm not sure whether it was something wrong with the actors' performances, the writing/directing, or simply a case of viewers seeing the two clash so many times that it's lost its impact.

I sort of agree here. I thought Tyrion was a little too restrained in his delivery when he was mocking Joffrey. As if he was reading a speech someone else had written from some hidden westerosi teleprompter.

Probably the first time I've felt Dinklage didn't bring his A game.

[snowy]

No. It has its bright and dim moments like every season. I enjoy experiencing other artist visions of the story, even when they don't align with the books, sometimes especially when they don't adhere to them. Plus, we have only just started S04.

[Jairion Lannister]

I said in another thread that there was arguably too much consecutive snark, with the Brienne/Cersei, Jaime/Loras and Oberyn/Lannister conversations. It wasn't that there was anything wrong with the dialogue; more that it was too much of the same following on right one after the other. I tend to find that the dialogue's at it's strongest when they're doing the KL political stuff with characters like Tyrion/Tywin/Varys etc. It's the stuff that's generally done best in the show.

[Fool of a Book]

I find the writing spotty. Too much dialogue just to give face time to the actors (Brienne, Jaime, Dany, Jorah) and not enough for those characters I care most about (Sam, Sansa, Arya). Neither did much to further the story.

The great scenes were great. Freaking great. The off-book filler was tedious.

[Raksha 2014]

I'm still trying to figure out what the whole scene with Mel and Shireen was for, adorable as Shireen is, I just don't get why it was included.

Maybe a budgetary reason to justify hiring the young actress who plays Shireen? I'm fine with it, because the girl is doing a fine job; she is really bringing Shireen to life for me. It was particularly poignant to see this lonely little girl sleeping in what looks like a dungeon (Dragonstone decor is particularly spartan) being addressed as "Princess" by the priestess who just burned her uncle (and others).

Count me in with those who found the Joffrey/Tyrion interaction at the wedding quite tense and riveting. The two actors had fine support from Sophie Turner as Sansa as well as assorted Lannisters and Tyrells and others who reacted in different ways (mostly with disgust at Joffrey's nastiness, except for Cersei, who was delighted and smug at the sight of her boy humiliating Tyrion).