MadQueenAmberTargaryen Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I agree that one of the huge pros about Brienne and Jaime was that the books were so good that you could tell without anyone having to go and spell it out like Cersei in the TV series. Until the last episode, I really thought the cast and storyline was doing alright with Brienne/Jaime.. LeSigh~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowLoras Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ehm... I don't understand, some people complain the scene was too "hitting over the head" and left all subtlety out, yet some people still don't get it? I'm not trying to be an arse, but what makes you deduce that Brienne thought about the incest (something she already knows of btw, since Jaime spelled it out as "I only ever fucked my sister" when he was speaking to her and Cat right before Cat freed him)? There's nothing dubious or ambiguous about that scene. She loves him, but until Cersei threw it in her face, she had never thought of it. Well, short of Cersei saying "You love him, don't you?" and Brienne replying "well shit, yes, I guess I do, only I never thought about it before", I'd say there's always going to be room for a certain degree of interpretation. And as my post implied, I'm already coming at this as someone who thinks there's obviously something between Jaime and Brienne. She's already been shown to be a tad naive, believing that the world ought to work by the honour system she herself operates under - her time with Jaime is almost like a gradual peeling away of that naivety, witnessing brutality and darkness and stripping her of her preconceptions. Jaime is simultaneously a kingslayer and a good man. The phrase 'true knight' means very little. It's not entirely unthinkable that Brienne might have dismissed Jaime's talk of Cersei as the ramblings of a broken (but smitten) man until she was confronted with the truth of it. But, to the more literal interpretation of the scene - I find it hard to believe Brienne hadn't considered her feelings for Jaime beforehand. Her shock, imo, is more likely to have come from Cersei correctly guessing and calling her on it - Brienne's a stoic, reserved woman, used to keeping her feelings under wraps. Cersei got under her skin and plucked out that secret in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 and i fucking hate the idea that cersei knows that jaime doesnt rescue her because he's love with brienne. so cliche and cheesy. i like how in the book cersei thinks that jaime would be too shallow to run off with someone like brienne. makes sense with her internalized misogyny. cersei knowing that jaime loves brienne makes it love-triangley. i hated it. it was bad writing, and i'm going to stick with that. You misunderstand me, we don't know whether Jaime returns her feelings or not as it's ambiguous in the books, but I think it would be more poignant for Cersei to know he's with someone who's in love with him. I liked her reaction in the books as well, but they've changed so many things anyway, I don't find this to be too bad. But hey, I'm not trying to change your mind. But, to the more literal interpretation of the scene - I find it hard to believe Brienne hadn't considered her feelings for Jaime beforehand. Her shock, imo, is more likely to have come from Cersei correctly guessing and calling her on it - Brienne's a stoic, reserved woman, used to keeping her feelings under wraps. Cersei got under her skin and plucked out that secret in one go. Well, in the books she pushes those feelings away. For instance she thinks of Jaime and forces herself to think of Renly. She wants to stay unaware because it's scary and doesn't want to face it. So it wouldn't be a stretch that in the show she did the same thing, and only came to terms with it once it's thrown in her face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Crashing Waves Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Cersei's dialogue was definitely stupid. "YOU LOVE HIM DON'T YOU" The fuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Cersei's dialogue was definitely stupid. "YOU LOVE HIM DON'T YOU" The fuck? lmao right??? like if you think that's good writing then i don't know what to say to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 You misunderstand me, we don't know whether Jaime returns her feelings or not as it's ambiguous in the books, but I think it would be more poignant for Cersei to know he's with someone who's in love with him. I liked her reaction in the books as well, but they've changed so many things anyway, I don't find this to be too bad. But hey, I'm not trying to change your mind. Well, in the books she pushes those feelings away. For instance she thinks of Jaime and forces herself to think of Renly. She wants to stay unaware because it's scary and doesn't want to face it. So it wouldn't be a stretch that in the show she did the same thing, and only came to terms with it once it's thrown in her face. how the hell is that more poignant??? at that point in the books, cersei is about to publicly sexually humiliated in the most degrading and misogynistic way possible. the walk of shame was akin to sexual abuse, and she's hoping for the man that she cares about to come and rescue her. her knowing that jaime is with someone who he's in love with just cheapens that entire situation. and they'll probably show her as a jealous psycho bitch. wow i grow more and more disillusioned with this series and fandom day by day, i'm beginning to hate myself for ever getting interested in got/asoiaf in the first place ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 lmao right??? like if you think that's good writing then i don't know what to say to you Would it've been better if she said Dost thee wench loveth in thine heart mine own brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 how the hell is that more poignant??? at that point in the books, cersei is about to publicly sexually humiliated in the most degrading and misogynistic way possible. the walk of shame was akin to sexual abuse, and she's hoping for the man that she cares about to come and rescue her. her knowing that jaime is with someone who he's in love with just cheapens that entire situation. and they'll probably show her as a jealous psycho bitch. wow i grow more and more disillusioned with this series and fandom day by day, i'm beginning to hate myself for ever getting interested in got/asoiaf in the first place ugh Maybe stop overreacting so we can actually talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Maybe stop overreacting so we can actually talk. i'm not overreacting, only saying things the way that i see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Crashing Waves Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Would it've been better if she said Dost thee wench loveth in thine heart mine own brother? Yes. That'd be pretty damn funny actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 i'm not overreacting, only saying things the way that i see them. "OMG I'm disillusioned with this fandom, everything sucks, I hate myself and no one understands" only because I disagree with you, is a bit excessive. I don't see how being aware of Brienne loving Jaime cheapens anything. It only makes it more sad, as her situation wasn't bad enough already. Again, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 "OMG I'm disillusioned with this fandom, everything sucks and no one understands" only because I disagree with you, is a bit excessive. I don't see how being aware of Brienne loving Jaime cheapens anything. It only makes it a more sad, as her situation wasn't bad enough already, Again, imo. um another woman being involved is just stupid and cheesy though. look there's no way we're going to come to an agreement on this so lets just call it a day okay. either way i honestly think the reason they've changed the altar scene into rather rapey and forceful is because it makes it easier for them to make jaime/brienne happen because they're lazy writers. and they probably think that sexual abuse is a ~grey area~ or some bullshit like that because they're clearly still pushing the redemption thing with jaime this season. so i'm sure you'll get your jaime/brienne romance on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta_Greyjoy Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't mind it. I think it will set up Brienne's adventures with Pod in the latter part of this season as well as the next. Instead of the Bloody Mummers it will be random Lannister extras trying to kill Brienne and bring back Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 um another woman being involved is just stupid and cheesy though. look there's no way we're going to come to an agreement on this so lets just call it a day okay. either way i honestly think the reason they've changed the altar scene into rather rapey and forceful is because it makes it easier for them to make jaime/brienne happen because they're lazy writers. and they probably think that sexual abuse is a ~grey area~ or some bullshit like that because they're clearly still pushing the redemption thing with jaime this season. so i'm sure you'll get your jaime/brienne romance on the show. How does a man raping a woman forward another ship? :unsure: If anything it derails Jaime as a character which is the opposite of redeeming him, and it's a baffling choice tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onna Lewyys Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Cersei's dialogue was definitely stupid. "YOU LOVE HIM DON'T YOU" The fuck?"But you love him" is one line out of the entire scene. Cersei says a whole bunch of other stuff before then that has nothing to do with Jaime, which seems like people are not giving the attention it deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 How does a man raping a woman forward another ship? :unsure: If anything it derails Jaime as a character which is the opposite of redeeming him, and it's a baffling choice tbh. its because D&D are flop lazy writers thats why. totally agree with that its a baffling choice. but since the oathekeeper episode is the next episode after altar rape/dubcon then i'm guessing they're trying to show cersei brings out the worst in jaime and brienne brings out the best. like i said before i wouldnt be surprised if they think that sexual abuse is a grey area or something. i'm sure a lot of people are going to enjoy it anyways since they made cersei out to be an irrational bitch in the first episode who won't fuck him because he "took too long" to get back to her when he was imprisoned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 its because D&D are flop lazy writers thats why. totally agree with that its a baffling choice. but since the oathekeeper episode is the next episode after altar rape/dubcon then i'm guessing they're trying to show cersei brings out the worst in jaime and brienne brings out the best. like i said before i wouldnt be surprised if they think that sexual abuse is a grey area or something. i'm sure a lot of people are going to enjoy it anyways since they made cersei out to be an irrational bitch in the first episode who won't fuck him because he "took too long" to get back to her when he was imprisoned Yeah how dare she not fuck him because she's upset that his temper and penchant to never think before acting started a war that got him imprisoned and caused her to face many tense and difficult events alone. HOW DARE SHE WHAT AN IRRATIONAL BITCH! Also thanks for clearing up for me that D&D are lazy, was always wondering if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yeah how dare she not fuck him because she's upset that his temper and penchant to never think before acting started a war that got him imprisoned and caused her to face many tense and difficult events alone. HOW DARE SHE WHAT AN IRRATIONAL BITCH! Also thanks for clearing up for me that D&D are lazy, was always wondering if that was the case. dude most people saw her as an irrational bitch in that scene. not saying its my opinion, but i follow closely with reviews and stuff and thats how most people saw it as. plus she went crazy during the purple wedding. a lot of people are going to see her as the irrational bitch who wont have sex with him next week. thats just the way D&D set it up because they're dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Was Cersei an irrational bitch? Everything did change, she's not sleeping with him for lots of reasons. Also, and I didn't really agree with this change myself, but show!Cersei really doesn't love Jaime all that much... Show!Cersei was in love with Robert. Jaime is like the guy she can fall on, but in the show canon she's really not as into him as he's into her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimecersei Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Was Cersei an irrational bitch? Everything did change, she's not sleeping with him for lots of reasons. Also, and I didn't really agree with this change myself, but show!Cersei really doesn't love Jaime all that much... Show!Cersei was in love with Robert. Jaime is like the guy she can fall on, but in the show canon she's really not as into him as he's into her. to be honest i hate a lot of the changes they've made to show!cersei but for 3 seasons they had her missing jaime and wanting him to come back to her. so when he comes back and she says stuff like "you took too long" when she clearly knows he was a prisoner of war does make her seem rather irrational and she looks terrible when jaime had just given away casterly rock to be with her. thats how most people saw it and i cant exactly blame them for seeing it that way. idk i'm just fully expecting the altar scene to be framed in a way that makes jaime look sympathetic rather than cersei considering the characterization of her in the past two episodes regarding jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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