R+L=J v.79

[Lyse Stark]

OMg it's from that NedFlanderStark a-hole, he is a fake fake fake troll. he makes up the MOST ridiculous threads in the world. Why hasn't he been kicked off yet? I reported him, Sick of it.

OMg it's from that NedFlanderStark a-hole, he is a fake fake fake troll. he makes up the MOST ridiculous threads in the world. Why hasn't he been kicked off yet? I reported him, Sick of it.

Absolutely agree, he should be banned.

[Ser Creighton]

OMg it's from that NedFlanderStark a-hole, he is a fake fake fake troll. he makes up the MOST ridiculous threads in the world. Why hasn't he been kicked off yet? I reported him, Sick of it.

It's locked, he is nowhere near as ridiculous as some of the Blackhawk threads, though Blackhawk was not a troll, just confused. Time to get back to reading Stan Fan rage posts over episode 2. Don't know why but I am really enjoying it. "SOB he is not suppose to have that much hair, they are just butchering him, why Martin, whyyyyyyyy?" "Stannis should glow and rainbows should poor from his eyes." Not that George has a better idea about his characters than the fans, but George has a better idea about his characters than the fans.

It's the show it is going to be different.

"The show has lost me forever, I will never come back, never after what they have done to Stan the man." So skipping episode 9 the battle of the wall? "After episode 9 I am never coming back to the show never." What about the battle of Ice and Fire? "Ok after the series ends I am never watching it unless Stannis wins the throne."

[Sir Dominus]

OMg it's from that NedFlanderStark a-hole, he is a fake fake fake troll. he makes up the MOST ridiculous threads in the world. Why hasn't he been kicked off yet? I reported him, Sick of it.

They'll just look like even bigger idiots once the books are released and their dumb ass ideas will be repudiated...

[Chebyshov]

Sorry to ask an R+L noob question, but do we know geographically where she was during the "abduction?" I'd assume on her way to Riverrun too, but it sounds as if she and Brandon were at separate locations.

I'm doing a reread, and the logistics and timeline of RR always confuse me, especially when things like the HOTU scene exist.

[MtnLion]

Sorry to ask an R+L noob question, but do we know geographically where she was during the "abduction?" I'd assume on her way to Riverrun too, but it sounds as if she and Brandon were at separate locations.

I'm doing a reread, and the logistics and timeline of RR always confuse me, especially when things like the HOTU scene exist.

No indication in the text. Many surmise that she was at or near Harrenhal, because of the proximity to the god's eye and the weirwoods. I speculate that she was in King's Landing, as that is where Brandon expected to find Rhaegar (he never mentions Lyanna, that we know of).

[Chebyshov]

No indication in the text. Many surmise that she was at or near Harrenhal, because of the proximity to the god's eye and the weirwoods. I speculate that she was in King's Landing, as that is where Brandon expected to find Rhaegar (he never mentions Lyanna, that we know of).

Ah thanks, glad I didn't miss anything. I figured Brandon went to KL because that was Rhaegar's home (and he wasn't painted as the world's greatest thinker); never considered Lyanna might have been there.

[Parsley Mostly]

New to posting, have read most of the threads - not all. Anyhoo, wanted to throw my two cents at the R + L = J theory, which I wholly subscribe to.

1. Prince That Was Promised - who has had "promise" circled around as much as Jon, or I guess Lyanna? The fact that she cries "promise me, Ned" so much is an obvious scream toward Jon.

2. Also, everyone harps about her bones and the crypts: yeah, the reason why no one should see her bones is because they'd give away she had a baby. Like, I know they're not the most advanced people, but I think Maesters would be able to tell if a corpse or set of bones had a baby.

Everyone know she was with Rhaegar, and no matter which tale they choose (rape vs. consented love), a set of Lyanna bones pointing toward childbirth would automatically mean she had his kid.

The whole "promise" thing is there. The reason why no on should look at her pelvis is there. In addition to the other evidence that's been collected, it's all right there.

Hi, sorry, don't go nuts on the new kid. :)

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

A corpse yes, but bones?

[J. Stargaryen]

New to posting, have read most of the threads - not all. Anyhoo, wanted to throw my two cents at the R + L = J theory, which I wholly subscribe to.

1. Prince That Was Promised - who has had "promise" circled around as much as Jon, or I guess Lyanna? The fact that she cries "promise me, Ned" so much is an obvious scream toward Jon.

2. Also, everyone harps about her bones and the crypts: yeah, the reason why no one should see her bones is because they'd give away she had a baby. Like, I know they're not the most advanced people, but I think Maesters would be able to tell if a corpse or set of bones had a baby.

Everyone know she was with Rhaegar, and no matter which tale they choose (rape vs. consented love), a set of Lyanna bones pointing toward childbirth would automatically mean she had his kid.

The whole "promise" thing is there. The reason why no on should look at her pelvis is there. In addition to the other evidence that's been collected, it's all right there.

Hi, sorry, don't go nuts on the new kid. :)

Welcome to the forums. :cheers:

Regarding the "promise" stuff related to Jon, I noticed something kind of neat a while back.

“Hush, child,” said Lady Leona. “You heard your lord grandfather. Hush! You know nothing.”

“I know about the promise,” insisted the girl. “Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!”

- ADwD, Davos III

"You know nothing," which is usually directed at Jon Snow, followed by a girl named Wylla, just like the wet nurse, declaring she knows about the promise. – Promise me, Ned.

Maybe it means that Wylla the wet nurse knows about the promise Ned made to Lyanna. Or, maybe there is more to it. Wylla Manderly's comments in that whole scene are very Stark-centric. Maybe there's a hint in there about the Manderly's throwing their support behind Jon Snow Stark, were he to accept legitimization via Robb's will. Even though I do believe R&L were married and he's already trueborn.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

A corpse yes, but bones?

Bones better than a corpse. If I remember correctly, the opening of the pelvis widens a during the first time a woman gives birth the natural way, because the child needs to fit through. After the birth, the pelvis remains in this new state.

With a corpse, it will be difficult to see. With only bones left, you can easily look at the pelvis.

[horizon]

Welcome to the forums. :cheers:

Regarding the "promise" stuff related to Jon, I noticed something kind of neat a while back.

- ADwD, Davos III

"You know nothing," which is usually directed at Jon Snow, followed by a girl named Wylla, just like the wet nurse, declaring she knows about the promise. – Promise me, Ned.

Maybe it means that Wylla the wet nurse knows about the promise Ned made to Lyanna. Or, maybe there is more to it. Wylla Manderly's comments in that whole scene are very Stark-centric. Maybe there's a hint in there about the Manderly's throwing their support behind Jon Snow Stark, were he to accept legitimization via Robb's will. Even though I do believe R&L were married and he's already trueborn.

Wylla Manderling... the wet nurse Wylla,

Nice find, perhaps Wylla is named after the wet-nurse Wylla?

[Geddus]

Sorry to ask an R+L noob question, but do we know geographically where she was during the "abduction?" I'd assume on her way to Riverrun too, but it sounds as if she and Brandon were at separate locations.

I'm doing a reread, and the logistics and timeline of RR always confuse me, especially when things like the HOTU scene exist.

Yeah that confuses me as well. I've always wondered what the hell happened.

Lyanna was apparently taken by force, even Dany confirms it, I've always assumed she was travelling (it's hard to believe Rhaegar could have stormed Winterfell), maybe going to Riverrun for the wedding.

But how did Brandon know? Who told him? And why did he react that way? I mean, I get that he was a hothead and probably not too smart, but come on, entering the royal castle shouting for the crown prince to come out and die? That's ground for treason even if the king is sane. I think there must be something more.

But what I find most confusing is Rhaegar letting things go that far, he had plenty of time to try and mitigate the situation, instead he stayed in hiding until the rebels had almost won and then did the worst possible thing (face Robert in battle). Why? Was he crazy too, or there's something more?

[FittleLinger]

Welcome to the forums. :cheers:

Regarding the "promise" stuff related to Jon, I noticed something kind of neat a while back.

- ADwD, Davos III

"You know nothing," which is usually directed at Jon Snow, followed by a girl named Wylla, just like the wet nurse, declaring she knows about the promise. – Promise me, Ned.

Maybe it means that Wylla the wet nurse knows about the promise Ned made to Lyanna. Or, maybe there is more to it. Wylla Manderly's comments in that whole scene are very Stark-centric. Maybe there's a hint in there about the Manderly's throwing their support behind Jon Snow Stark, were he to accept legitimization via Robb's will. Even though I do believe R&L were married and he's already trueborn.

There is also the parallel that circles around that particular promise. The Manderlys fled North when they were hunted and hated, and the Starks took them as their men, pretty much like Ned did with Jon. Also, Wyman tells Wylla to keep shut about the whole thing (the promise and their loyalty).

About Lyanna (Stark), there is also the thing that she has a statue. Only Lords of WF get statues in the crypts (and she was not even a lady of WF). The argument that Ned loved her dearly and that's why he built her a statue holds water, but there could be more to it. He could've made it partially because she was a queen for a time.

The other Northerner, also a small girl, who tells Stannis to piss off and talks about Kings (of the North) is Lyanna (Mormont). Coincidence? Yeah, probably, but it's worth thinking about.

[Ygrain]

ROFLMAO, GoT as 70s TV show

[FittleLinger]

Nick Waldo (!) enters the room, the Imp is with a whore [audience laughing]. Brilliant! :D

[ladyinblack]

See I am thinking it will be more of an ice birth than Dany's fire birth. I think those ice cells are where Jon is headed. He will be reborn from the ice much the same as Dany was reborn from the fire.

I think so too. Didn't Bran see him there in one of his first visions?

[Sir Dominus]

ROFLMAO,

Brilliant!

[WhiteOwl18]

I might be seeing too much here, but I just read the World of Ice and Fire sample on GRRM's website, and one paragraph in particular really caught my attention:

Aegon [meaning Aegon the Conqueror] had two trueborn siblings; an elder sister, Visenya, and a younger sister, Rhaenys. It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure, but Aegon took both his sisters to bride. By tradition, he was expected to wed only his older sister, Visenya

; the inclusion of Rhaenys as a second wife was unusual though not without precedent. It was said by some that Aegon wed Visenya out of duty and Rhaenys out of desire.

Like I said, I may be wrong, but I think this might be telling us something about an aspect of R+L=J that some people are still skeptical about...

[Ygrain]

I might be seeing too much here, but I just read the World of Ice and Fire sample on GRRM's website, and one paragraph in particular really caught my attention:

Aegon [meaning Aegon the Conqueror] had two trueborn siblings; an elder sister, Visenya, and a younger sister, Rhaenys. It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure, but Aegon took both his sisters to bride. By tradition, he was expected to wed only his older sister, Visenya

; the inclusion of Rhaenys as a second wife was unusual though not without precedent. It was said by some that Aegon wed Visenya out of duty and Rhaenys out of desire.

Like I said, I may be wrong, but I think this might be telling us something about an aspect of R+L=J that some people are still skeptical about...

Which part do you mean?

unusual but not without precedent, or he wed one out of duty and the other out of desire?

[FrozenFire3]

I might be seeing too much here, but I just read the World of Ice and Fire sample on GRRM's website, and one paragraph in particular really caught my attention:

Aegon [meaning Aegon the Conqueror] had two trueborn siblings; an elder sister, Visenya, and a younger sister, Rhaenys. It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure, but Aegon took both his sisters to bride. By tradition, he was expected to wed only his older sister, Visenya

; the inclusion of Rhaenys as a second wife was unusual though not without precedent. It was said by some that Aegon wed Visenya out of duty and Rhaenys out of desire.

Like I said, I may be wrong, but I think this might be telling us something about an aspect of R+L=J that some people are still skeptical about...

I absolutely join the "eagle eyed" fest LOL I believe the passage is very telling. How to bend traditions to follow your (conflicting) heart's desire (if you are a Targaryen).