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Arataniello

World of Ice and Fire extract to be available

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I must say, I feel the series is all the poorer for being without Houses Gardener and Durrendon in the present age. They would just have added that bit more weight of history to the South, much of which is now ruled by Houses that were nothing special as recently as 300 years ago.


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Also quite interesting is that the Crownlands can quite legitimately be seen as belonging to the Targs.



We see that the current Crownlands is basically what Argilac offered Aegon in exchange for marrying his daughter.



So if Westeros does split back into the Seven Kingdoms at the end of the series, Dany can get King's Landing and the surrounding Crownlands with at least a symbolic link to history, without disrupting any of the other kingdoms at all.



I am hoping this is how things turn out.


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Rhaenys_Targaryen,

Slaves as well (!)

Even though their initial interest wasn't tied into Westerosi affairs, they took the Seven.

Also, could Ran provide us with the artist's name? The drawing is stunning. I can only imagine the painstaking effort in depicting every little detail. Of course it takes time... I understand the waiting and approve. :) The dragon has intricate harnesses! Look at his jaw! :)

Free Northman Reborn,

The legacy of houses Gardner and Durrandon isn't lost; Or are you suggesting that Stormking's daughter brings nothing to the marriage? :p Why would highborn daughter's lineage be discarded?

As for the Gardners... They have their seeds aplenty in every cranny of the Reach, most likely.

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I was disappointed with the sample, except a couple of minor info, we knew everything. But that picture is brilliant, I hope it gets used a lot, when the viewers of the show start stying how big Dany's dragons have become in S4 :)


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The artist is J. Gonzales, going by the drawing's file name; tried googling, there's Paul J Gonzales and John Gonzales..? Any idea?

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Another interesting bit of information is that the Targaryens had used Dragonstone for 200 years before the Doom to exact a type of "tribute" with their fleets and dragons from sea trade in the central Narrow Sea.

So basically they were the local mafia. Nice. Glorified pirates.

Well, I imagine that between their fleets and their dragons they also kept the shipping lanes very safe from pirates, so there is that. Of course, the traders had to pay for the privilege, but them's the breaks.

I kind of wonder how polygamy worked in Valyria - and now we know for sure that they practiced it. Incest was supposed to consolidate power and dragons within the main line, I have always thought, but wouldn't multiple wives and their offspring counteract this and lead to inter-family power-struggles and bloodbaths? Particularly, if there are more than 2 wives, which seemed to be the case with Aenar...

Ironic, that Agrilac's offer seemingly kicked off the Conquest, though Aegon and Visenya were clearly eying Westeros before that. Also, Targaryens were already followers of the Seven - which means that some septon must have married them, right? And Argilac was also a follower of the Faith, yet offered his daughter as a _third_ wife to Aegon? Hm... And since he clearly didn't seem to intend for his daughter and her eventual children to inherit the Stormlands proper, I wonder what his plans were concerning his successor. Did he have a bastard son he favored? A cousin? Did he intend to remarry in his old age and try to breed a son?

Oh, and Celtigars are of Valyrian descent too, while Bar Emmons and Masseys had "close ties to Dragonstone". We also didn't know that Bar Emmons were (originally?) from the mainland, IIRC.

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Rhaenys_Targaryen,

Slaves as well (!)

Even though their initial interest wasn't tied into Westerosi affairs, they took the Seven.

Also, could Ran provide us with the artist's name? The drawing is stunning. I can only imagine the painstaking effort in depicting every little detail. Of course it takes time... I understand the waiting and approve. :) The dragon has intricate harnesses! Look at his jaw! :)

Yes, slaves as well. Though I can see why, as they did come from Valyria, and in Essos the slave trade is huge. I wonder if Dany will ever find out?

Also interesting to read that Aenar brought siblings, and other kin, with him. What happened to those Targaryens? I hope we'll someday find out somehow.

Also, Targaryen blood for the Velaryons, as Velena's mother thus was a Targaryen. Perhaps Daemon thus had dragons blood as well, if they had been siblings or aunt and nephew. This also adds strength to why the Targaryens intermarried with the Velaryons so much more often than wig other families.. they shared dragonsblood, which is the best option if a Targaryen itself is not available.

Side thought: Perhaps the intermarrying of Targaryen and Velaryon stopped after the Dance, because Alyn became the Lord, and his parentage was very questionable.

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Also interesting to read that Sense brought siblings, and other kin, with him. What happened to those Targaryens? I hope we'll someday find out somehow.

The Century of Blood, perhaps?

Side thought: Perhaps the intermarrying of Targaryen and Velaryon stopped after the Dance, because Alyn became the Lord, and his parentage was very questionable.

Maybe for maesters and the realm, but Targs? If he was Laenor's son... Still a dragon.

Also - after the Dance, there were no dragons left. That altered the dynamics of power significantly. Instead of fiery rulership, the moment was begging for (human) allies.

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Side thought: Perhaps the intermarrying of Targaryen and Velaryon stopped after the Dance, because Alyn became the Lord, and his parentage was very questionable.

My initial thoughts were that the Targ kings, after the end of the Dance of Dragons, made a more conscious effort to intermarry with other Great Houses, to cement allegiance to the Iron Throne. In the long term, this just spread the Targ/Valyrian blood around more, and ended up giving others (ie Baratheons) a pretext to oust the Targs from the throne. There may also have been a decline in the number of Velaryon brides available as well.

Obviously the "Valyrian" houses endured since there are Lords Velaryon and Celtigar mentioned in the main books. I suspect the loss of the Sea Snake's fortune in the destruction of his home in tPatQ could have been the start of a long and slow decline in the prestige of the house, which could also have had an impact on the Velaryon's perceived "worthiness" as royal brides.

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I was disappointed with the sample, except a couple of minor info, we knew everything. But that picture is brilliant, I hope it gets used a lot, when the viewers of the show start stying how big Dany's dragons have become in S4 :)

Yes we kind of already knew what was said but I did like the picture of Balerion and Aegon riding him and the size dragons can grow.

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The Velaryons are nearly a small branch of House Targaryen, with the huge amount of marriages in the early times.



I suspect that the Dance was not the cause of the Velaryon's fall from power. Alyn Velaryon had to gain wealth when leading the conquest of Dorne, and Daenera being the mother of two kings should also contribute to restore the family's position. I think it was a much more slow, gradual thing, possibly catalized by he effect of choosing bad sides in the Blackfyre rebellions (Daemon Blackfyre was Daenera's grandson) and Robert's Rebellion ending with the destructon of the Targaryen (Velaryon) fleet at Dragonstone.






Also quite interesting is that the Crownlands can quite legitimately be seen as belonging to the Targs.



We see that the current Crownlands is basically what Argilac offered Aegon in exchange for marrying his daughter.



So if Westeros does split back into the Seven Kingdoms at the end of the series, Dany can get King's Landing and the surrounding Crownlands with at least a symbolic link to history, without disrupting any of the other kingdoms at all.





But Aegon didn't marry Argilac's daughter. So it remains just a matter of right of conquest with no further legitimacy.


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The Velaryons are nearly a small branch of House Targaryen, with the huge amount of marriages in the early times.

I suspect that the Dance was not the cause of the Velaryon's fall from power. Alyn Velaryon had to gain wealth when leading the conquest of Dorne, and Daenera being the mother of two kings should also contribute to restore the family's position. I think it was a much more slow, gradual thing, possibly catalized by he effect of choosing bad sides in the Blackfyre rebellions (Daemon Blackfyre was Daenera's grandson) and Robert's Rebellion ending with the destructon of the Targaryen (Velaryon) fleet at Dragonstone.

But Aegon didn't marry Argilac's daughter. So it remains just a matter of right of conquest with no further legitimacy.

Symbolically though, it would fit quite nicely if the Targs ended up with the land that one of the native Westerosi kings was willing to cede to them in any case, before the Conquest.

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I doubt that Aegon and his sisters prayed to the Seven BEFORE the conquest. Sounds like stuff made up by the maesters and septons.

Mmmm, but if the accounts that they visited Oldtown and the Arbor are true, then they likely had interactions with the Faith before they set out.

I quite enjoyed this extract actually, and I agree; that is some stunning artwork of Balerion.

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The size of the dragon in that picture immediately begs the question - how did riders of beasts that size control/direct them in flight?



We read of Dany using her whip, hands and feet to move Drogon in the direction she wishes him to go. On something of Balerion's size, it must have been done differently....?


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'The size of the dragon in that picture immediately begs the question - how did riders of beasts that size control/direct them in flight?

We read of Dany using her whip, hands and feet to move Drogon in the direction she wishes him to go. On something of Balerion's size, it must have been done differently....?

I don't agree with the awestruck reaction to the size of the dragon in this picture. That gullet is still only around 6 feet in height, if you compare it to the height of the man on his back. And yet Tyrion says a mammoth could walk down the gullet. That means it has to be at least twice the size of the picture, at around 12 feet in height, minimum.

So the real Balerion has to have around twice the throat diameter of the one in that picture, which would presumably double all of his other dimensions as well. Which in turn, would increase his mass 8 fold.

EDIT

Also, in the books dragons are described as mostly neck, tail and wings, and yet the depiction in this picture leaves the dragon's head attached almost directly to his body, similar to a T-Rex or Komodo or something, when in reality it would seem that dragons had necks more similar to that of a Brontosaurus. Long and thin.

So if the comparatively thin throat cavity on the Brontosaur type neck is still large enough to accommodate a mammoth whole, then the full size of the dragon must be many times larger than the depiction in the picture.

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It confirms that the Storm Kings are of House Durrandon, not the wiki's Durrendon, and that Argilac was the Storm King mentioned in ADWD to have fought Volantis.


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I doubt that Aegon and his sisters prayed to the Seven BEFORE the conquest. Sounds like stuff made up by the maesters and septons.

Statues of the Seven in the sept of Dragonstone were made from the wood of the ships that brought the Targaryens from Valyria (per ACoK). I.e. They must have converted relatively soon after arriving and Aegon and his sisters were born into the Faith, though a somewhat modified local version that allowed incestual marriages, to be sure. In fact, The Fall of Valyria may have provided impetus for conversion and abolition of slavery in Targaryen holdings, as Valyrian gods and customs had just failed their people in most abject manner possible.

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I find it interesting that Argilac was involved in wars in Essos, when at the same time he was concerned about the security of his own realm back in Westeros.



At the same time, reading between the lines of the extract, there seems to be a hint that Argilac's involvement in the war against Volantis in some way served to bolster his military position, and it would seem that it was in this war that he slew Garth Gardener.



That last bit is somewhat confusing, as I don't know what Garth Gardener would be doing fighting over in Essos. Nor do I understand what benefit Argilac saw in joining the fight against Volantis, unless it was with the long term plan in mind to become allies with Aegon.


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