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Vaelya of Asshai

Episode Predictions (Book Spoilers)?

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I hope we get to hear "the Last of the Giants".

I was so irked we didn't get it last season. Hopefully, yeah, we'll hear it in 4x09.

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So may deaths left to happen this season. The second half of the season is going to be nuts. It's going to be so sad seeing Ygritte die in Jon's arms :frown5:.


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So may deaths left to happen this season. The second half of the season is going to be nuts. It's going to be so sad seeing Ygritte die in Jon's arms :frown5:.

It will :frown5: :bawl: :crying:

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One of Grenn or Thorne is playing the Donal Noye role since we know the Giant makes it into the tunnels under the Wall and is met by the NW (Grenn being one of them that we can see in the trailers). We also see the individual one on one faceoffs during the battle of Styr vs Jon and Tormund vs Thorne. They've shown shots which look very much like the steps up the Wall being blown with the Thenns on them as it happens in the book. The laws of TV drama also dictate that the little kid (apparently his name is Guymon) who says he's a great archer will be the one to take down Ygritte in retribution for her killing his father in front of him.



Jon will take care of Styr and I can't see Tormund dying here so he either kills Thorne or escapes, wounded or something like that. You could also have Sam doing something heroic in defense of Gilly as well which would be a nice character progression for him.



The argument for Thorne's death during this battle is that because the show has made the change of having Thorne back early and being Acting LC, he's already in the power position. He's shown rallying the troops before the battle and obviously will fight valiantly during the battle. So if the NW prevail (which they will) and it's under his command, what reason would the NW ever have to elect Jon over him. Aliser has seniority, has been doing the job already and led them to victory (with Stannis' help) under his watch. You have to have him die during the battle in order to open up the options for the NW election.



There's also strong hints in interviews that Kit Harrington and Owen Teale have given which indicate that the Jon/Thorne dynamic will evolve over the season which probably means that Jon eventually earns Aliser's respect during the battle which would be amazing for Jon's arc given how staunchly Thorne has insisted Jon doesn't have what it takes for so long. To have him say with his dying words the Donal Noye "the Wall is yours" to Jon would be pretty powerful.



Really, Thorne does next to nothing in the books after the battle. Slynt always was the guy positioned as the front runner for the LC during the aftermath with Thorne basically just sitting around with him making sniveling comments. Slynt has been at the Wall long enough on the show to garner his own powerbase and lackeys that doesn't require Thorne to be present for. In the books, after executing Slynt, Jon just sends Thorne on a ranging in the middle of nowhere just to get rid of him. I highly doubt we hear from him again. So killing him off here and letting him give Jon his seal of approval after busting his balls for so long would be a great way to use him.


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^I do think we'll see Thorne again, likely in TWOW, but that doesn't mean the show won't kill him. If they need another important ranger to die or come back to the Wall they can make someone new up anyways.


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Jon will take care of Styr and I can't see Tormund dying here so he either kills Thorne or escapes, wounded or something like that. You could also have Sam doing something heroic in defense of Gilly as well which would be a nice character progression for him.

There's also strong hints in interviews that Kit Harrington and Owen Teale have given which indicate that the Jon/Thorne dynamic will evolve over the season which probably means that Jon eventually earns Aliser's respect during the battle

They could bring the two of those together and have Jon feather Tormund as he's about to kill Thorne thus earning his respect.

But that means Thorne has to live..no point in Jon saving him from Tormund only to have Wilding #5 just kill him anyway later. Either the respect between them only lasts for the battle and he's back to berating Jon afterwards or they become great friends which I can't see.

From what I can see, it's either this or Thorne dies which kills the tension in the election a bit and we wouldn't get to see him being pissed at Jon calling the shots.

Sure we could have Slynt do that but I think the Thorne/Jon relationship has more to it so it's a bit more interesting.

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-snip-

I agree with this.

Btw, have we seen Locke in any of the previews of the battle, because if survives Ep 5 and features in Ep 9 and survives that as well, i bet he will taking up Bowen Marsh's role.

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Well I'm sure all of our Locke questions will be resolved next episode. If Jon's ranging is told by Karl that Bran is dead then Locke might return to the Wall and bide his time with the intention of killing Jon. If not, he'll likely pursue Bran.


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Well I'm sure all of our Locke questions will be resolved next episode. If Jon's ranging is told by Karl that Bran is dead then Locke might return to the Wall and bide his time with the intention of killing Jon. If not, he'll likely pursue Bran.

I want him to stay beside Jon. Their dynamic would be interesting to develop.

Locke for Bowen Marsh. :commie: :commie: :commie:

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Personally I'd prefer they had a more seasoned NW guy for their Bowen figure, not Bolton's catspaw. But I'd also like Noah Taylor to stick around, so I'm conflicted.


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The argument for Thorne's death during this battle is that because the show has made the change of having Thorne back early and being Acting LC, he's already in the power position. He's shown rallying the troops before the battle and obviously will fight valiantly during the battle. So if the NW prevail (which they will) and it's under his command, what reason would the NW ever have to elect Jon over him. Aliser has seniority, has been doing the job already and led them to victory (with Stannis' help) under his watch. You have to have him die during the battle in order to open up the options for the NW election.

Solid reasoning.

But then what was the point of Slynt trying to get rid of Jon and mentioning how popular he is? They could have just played up how much they both hate him...

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I don't like the idea of Locke for Bowen. Bowen reasons for the plot was to save the NW. At least that was how they were seeing it. Locke would just be doing it for Roose


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I don't like the idea of Locke for Bowen. Bowen reasons for the plot was to save the NW. At least that was how they were seeing it. Locke would just be doing it for Roose

I'm not sure that it would be all that different, especially since Locke will need some development to actually stay in the Night's Watch. Sure, Bowen does it for the Watch, but he's ultimately trying to appease the Boltons by stopping Jon. I don't think that's a far cry off from Locke doing something similar... and, actually, it could be pretty interesting, considering that we could get a Locke that's just as conflicted about his loyalties as Jon is about his own.

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But Locke is a sadistic psycho, so I doubt loyalty figures much into his thinking at all. We'll see though, if he doesn't die next episode or take off after Bran, then he may well stay at the NW for a time.


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The argument for Thorne's death during this battle is that because the show has made the change of having Thorne back early and being Acting LC, he's already in the power position. He's shown rallying the troops before the battle and obviously will fight valiantly during the battle. So if the NW prevail (which they will) and it's under his command, what reason would the NW ever have to elect Jon over him. Aliser has seniority, has been doing the job already and led them to victory (with Stannis' help) under his watch. You have to have him die during the battle in order to open up the options for the NW election.

There's also strong hints in interviews that Kit Harrington and Owen Teale have given which indicate that the Jon/Thorne dynamic will evolve over the season which probably means that Jon eventually earns Aliser's respect during the battle which would be amazing for Jon's arc given how staunchly Thorne has insisted Jon doesn't have what it takes for so long. To have him say with his dying words the Donal Noye "the Wall is yours" to Jon would be pretty powerful.

Well-said. Let's hope that's how it's going to happen.

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Solid reasoning.

But then what was the point of Slynt trying to get rid of Jon and mentioning how popular he is? They could have just played up how much they both hate him...

I think they've got Slynt positioned as the slimy, evil guy (which he is) that's playing Thorne at this point but as the season goes on and the battle occurs, Thorne will realize that Jon is probably the one best suited to lead and as he's dying, he'll finally tell Jon that he's the one who should take the reigns.

The election will be focused on Slynt making his political power move (which is his speciality) and Jon having to overcome that. I don't see why Thorne absolutely has to be by Slynt's side as he was in the books to make this work. Slynt being here longer on the show and already being positioned as a power player (they have basically made him acting LC Thorne's right hand already) should be enough to show that he's on his way to being elected LC unless someone else emerges.

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I think they've got Slynt positioned as the slimy, evil guy (which he is) that's playing Thorne at this point but as the season goes on and the battle occurs, Thorne will realize that Jon is probably the one best suited to lead and as he's dying, he'll finally tell Jon that he's the one who should take the reigns.

The election will be focused on Slynt making his political power move (which is his speciality) and Jon having to overcome that. I don't see why Thorne absolutely has to be by Slynt's side as he was in the books to make this work. Slynt being here longer on the show and already being positioned as a power player (they have basically made him acting LC Thorne's right hand already) should be enough to show that he's on his way to being elected LC unless someone else emerges.

I agree. Do you think the election will be in episode 10? And will it end with Slynt's beheading?

I have to say I'm liking Alister Thorne's portrayal in the show and in this season a lot. You can see he doesn't like Jon but he's closer to him that he wants to admit, and he knows that Jon's right about a lot of things. He's playing the "evil but smart" guy (whereas Slynt is the "evil and stupid" guy).

And how Jon said "someone has to train them" to Throne, as that was (is?) his duty and it seems that nobody is taking care about it.

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