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[Book Spoilers] EP403 Discussion

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And Dontos stayed in the boat, so if the boat goes ashore and they find him and the necklace, it will frame him and Sansa. Right?

Yup Yup :) LF goin all in on making Sansa feel culpable. Of course, he's right about Cersei wouldn't let a little thing like Total Lack Of Evidence stop her from convicting Sansa of the assassination. But it's definitely all about LF making Sansa convict herself in her mind, so she'll be more afraid, more dependent, more compliant.

OOOH OOOH ALSO: I guess they didn't have time to have Sansa do her epic climb down the cliff, which is regrettable, but at least Dontos got the "you're stronger than you know" line in, even though it's not going to be a memorable detail to most.

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About Tommen's age and his marriage to Margaery...

Did anyone notice that as Tywin and Tommen were walking away, Tywin was telling Tommen about the need to marry and continue the family line?

The rest of the conversation went like this:

Tywin: To continue the family line. Do you know how that happens?

Tommen: Yes.

Tywin: Has anyone explained the details to you?

Tommen: I don't think so.

Tywin: It's all relatively straightforward...

Hmmm. Sansa and Tyrion never wound up consummating their marriage, either, but Tywin giving Tommen the talk? I wonder.

TV Tommen is...interesting. Despite being older, he still seems easily manipulated by Tywin...although, to be fair, Tywin was not wrong in anything that he said.

Yeah, that was a... strange dialogue. LOL

Pity TV Tommen has to be older, since the fun about him is that he was childish.

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So was anyone else getting the vibe that Tywin sanctioned the Joffrey hit besides me? Or is that silly?

No, I completely got that too. I think they were setting up for the unsullied to think, oh, it was Oleanna. No, Tywin. No, Petyr.

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Can't figure the Orys I thing. If they meant to say "Aerys I", maybe there are rumors that he was offed by Maekar? (Rumors he was offed by Bloodraven might work too, but Bloodraven was his uncle...)

Maybe Orys is the missing Targ king ruling between Jaehaerys I and Viserys I?

Aerys was king for like a decade, not a year, and he wasn't known for being "just".

What missing king between Jaehaerys and Viserys?

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So was anyone else getting the vibe that Tywin sanctioned the Joffrey hit besides me? Or is that silly?

Well Tyrion even posited it...my guess is he might have maybe suspected something was being plotted, but didn't bother to do anything at most. I don't see him taking an active role in it.

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He eventually swept it off the rail and onto The Late Ser Dontos.

hmmmmm. so much for her poisoning him with the remaining stones. or i suppose that could still happen in the book and the show will do it differently but it looks like that will not be the way littlefinger meets his ends.

I don't usually hate on the tv show (im pretty laid back and can usually understand the changes they make) BUT I HATE THAT THEY MADE JAIME RAPE CERSEI.

He is supposed to be in the midst/final transition of becoming a better man. Even before his redemption he would have never raped her!

Now I know how the Stannis fans feel :bang:

yes, i really didn't like the scene and don't understand what they're doing with jaime. so next week he's off to find sansa? with brienne, i suppose? weird.

as for stannis, this is the first time i really don't like what they've done with him. why is being so mean to davos? and with davos seemingly ready to sneak off to the iron bank, i'm sure the stanstans will be up in arms at the lack of agency of their hero.

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The good:



Shireen/Davos is awesome


New Daario is looking more promising


Tommen looks like he'll be interesting to watch (having Charles Dance talk to him over Joffrey's corpse was a bit heavy-handed though)


Tyrion/Pod was fairly moving



The glaring bad:


What in the actual fuck was that Jaime/Cersei rape scene


Valuable time is wasted to basically just remind the audience that Oberyn is bisexual


Stannis is still murderous and completely incapable of making any decisions of his own, ever......and I'm still wondering why cram the Gendry stuff into the last episode of S3 after 1 king had fallen when he's done nothing since



Overall, this episode has the same problem nearly every other episode has...D&D have to sacrifice theme to keep the plot moving, so it always looks like collection of random scenes strewn together. There seems to be an emphasis on the idea of mentoring (Arya/The Hound, Tywin/Tommen, Tyrion/Pod, Sansa/LF) but it's all over the place, so nothing coherent ever emerges.


Edited by Stannis-the-Mannis

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About Tommen's age and his marriage to Margaery...

Did anyone notice that as Tywin and Tommen were walking away, Tywin was telling Tommen about the need to marry and continue the family line?

The rest of the conversation went like this:

Tywin: To continue the family line. Do you know how that happens?

Tommen: Yes.

Tywin: Has anyone explained the details to you?

Tommen: I don't think so.

Tywin: It's all relatively straightforward...

Hmmm. Sansa and Tyrion never wound up consummating their marriage, either, but Tywin giving Tommen the talk? I wonder.

TV Tommen is...interesting. Despite being older, he still seems easily manipulated by Tywin...although, to be fair, Tywin was not wrong in anything that he said.

That's one problem in making Tommen, what, 12 or 13 instead of the 9-or-10-year old I think he was supposed to be at Joffrey's death; it will be less believable that Tommen, as King, will still act in a childish way. This boy looks a bit too old to be outlawing beets and getting pleasure banging down the royal seal and playing with his kittens.

Tywin wasn't wrong, necessarily, but he came off as rather self-serving, as if he was practically directing the kid to shut up, appoint Grandpa Hand, and do what the Hand/Council says forever.

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So was anyone else getting the vibe that Tywin sanctioned the Joffrey hit besides me? Or is that silly?

I think D&D want some people to get that vibe, at least. More suspects the better until they reveal whodunnit.

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I think the "Jaime rapes Cersei" thing totally messed up the end of A Feast For Crows with the "I love you, I love you, I love you" letter from Cersei to Jaime, doesn't it? If she still writes him that letter after being raped, that is F*KKED UP.

I agree that he raped her in that scene, but she's very messed up and could later tell him she loves him. I mean, yes, f-ed up, but also par for the course for Cersei.

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he left it on the railing, didn't he? sansa probably still has it, right? i mean, isn't that the "tool" everyone is speculating sansa will use to do him in?

yes, it's really heavy handed. not liking that as much.

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So was anyone else getting the vibe that Tywin sanctioned the Joffrey hit besides me? Or is that silly?

I doubt he approved of it in advance, but once the shock wore off I'm sure he saw the potential upside. He was already worried about what kind of a king Joff was becoming. In the book he was able to say "He's only 13, there's time," but with Joff being aged up in the show, he basically had to accept that Joff wasn't going to improve.

Tommen, on the other hand, shows no psycho tendencies and is young enough to be trained, something Tywin set about taking care of almost before Joff's body was cool.

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No he shoved it off the railing into the boat with Dontos. The necklace that is. Tried to put the question in here but I'm new to all this :-/

Edited by Lyanna<3Rhaegar

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Aerys was king for like a decade, not a year, and he wasn't known for being "just".

What missing king between Jaehaerys and Viserys?

I haven't seen the episode yet, I'm going on what's been reported here -- that a "King Orys" was mentioned as being killed by his brother.

There's an unexplained gap in the Royal Targaryen House tree at http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/c/c6/House_Targaryen_Family_tree.jpg

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