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[Book Spoilers] EP403 Discussion

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Show Jorah is still snitching, maybe?

Anyway, that just did not sit right with me. The whole scene, for that matter.

I don't think it's really that Jorah was snitching. I'm sure by now there are lots of rumors of there being Dragons with Dany. Plus as far as we know, Jorah was writing to KL well into the second book. So he may have said something about her birthing dragons.

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Perhaps it's because Davos might abandon him in the next book?

:eek: how could you think such a thing? surely davos will go down with the ship, never betraying his king and benefactor, right? i mean, what would have to happen for him to abandon stannis now?!!!!

The show is making us love Shireen, because they know she's going to die.

but they could have just continued with the adorable shireen if all they wanted was audience sympathy. instead they're making her such a boss in her scenes with davos. plus she's his teacher. that really implies strength and intelligence and that is just not shown in the books. i mean in the books she's constantly with patchface! 'nuff said. she's being shown as having all the good qualities of stannis and none of the bad ones which makes me really rethink her possible endgame.

I'm a little confused by this actually. In the book LF lets Sansa hold on to the hair net? Is there any mention of the hair net after she is whisked away from KL? I don't seem to remember.

in the books, sansa still has her hairnet. it's never taken from her when she meets up with littlefinger on the boat.

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Well I didn't watch the trailer closely enough then. Tywin's convo sounds like he's fixing the trial to go to combat, which could have happened in the book, tho it was presented as Oberyns idea.

No, in the books Tywin was extremely angry when it went that way, so angry that he was barely able to control himself. Like Tyrion, Tywin clearly saw that no matter how the trial by combat went, the outcome would hurt the Lannister regime. He also tried to keep the Mountain away from KL, it was Cersei who summoned him to be her champion behind Daddy's back.

But then, book Tywin is generally far more cunning and capable than the show one and it is genuinely believable that he would have been able to put the realm back together. Here they seem to be gearing towards him, rather than Cersei, alienating the Iron Bank. Oh, and also he seems to believe that Dorne would support the Lannisters over a Targaryen with 3 dragons and an army?!!

Dance is a great actor, but the writing for Tywin dumbed his character down a lot, IMHO.

Oh, and WTF with Jaime as a rapist?!!

in the books, sansa still has her hairnet. it's never taken from her when she meets up with littlefinger on the boat.

Didn't Sansa hide the net in the godswood, where she met with Dontos prior to their escape? She noticed that one stone was missing, too. Too bad they didn't show her realization of that in the show.

Edited by Maia

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I was fine with the Cersei-Jaime 'rape' scene. I was fine w it because it's in a completely different context in the show. In the book, during this scene, this is the first time Jaime and Cersei see each other since he gets back. So much different than the show.

In show we know Jaime has been back for 'weeks'. They already have had their hellos and problems and we know Cersei is being a bitch to Jaime. She's not giving it up and telling him he took to long and everything else. It's such a different circumstance.

IF the book events were actually more similar to how the show has handled the whole Jaime-Cersei story, I can see Martin writing it the same way. Jaime letting his emotion get the best of him and forcing himself on Cersei, Cersei saying no but eventually giving in, which is how I saw it.

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Either Tywin goes back on his word (which would be kind of ridiculous considering that he just made the offer like two days earlier), or they're going to have Oberyn become champion because he's convinced by Saint Tyrion's goodness and innocence.

neither, tywin will give oberyn his meeting but it will be in the view of the people so he will not attack, and then pick his chance to become champion because he wants to kill gregor, not because he's convinced by "the imp"

Edited by Phil Sand

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Didn't Sansa hide the net in the godswood, where she met with Dontos prior to their escape? She noticed that one stone was missing, too. Too bad they didn't show her realization of that in the show.

She stuffed it in her pocket and we never see it again, that I could find

Re: book Bronn vs show Bronn re:Book vs show Shae

If Shae returns it means Bronn was outsmarted by a Lannister flunky (not likely especially since Cersei was in charge of that task) or she passed it on to a Tyrell in which case they might have got her. Or Bronn sold out Tyrion which I would find very annoying - I can see them buying him off but not without him giving Tyrion a shot to outbid. They could have threatened him but only Cersei is insane enough to think Tyrion is guilty wo a trial and Bronn doesn't threaten easily. OTOH if they reverse gears on Show Shae why not Show Bronn. Then they could do whatever they want.

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I don't think it's really that Jorah was snitching. I'm sure by now there are lots of rumors of there being Dragons with Dany. Plus as far as we know, Jorah was writing to KL well into the second book. So he may have said something about her birthing dragons.

Either way I don't like Tywin being up to speed on Essos, or at least I don't like it being made plain to the viewer. It's going to make him look like he would have been great for the realm, and that Varys is failing badly. It sounds silly for a man like Tywin to speak about Danaerys as a bigger threat than Balon and Stannis, even if he believes it. Plus it makes Slynt's tattle taling so subtle that nobody would pick up on it.

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My thoughts on last night's episode of Game of Thrones season 4 ep 3:

--VERY MINOR SPOILERS--

Good opening scene w/ Sansa. Just how I pictured it. Interesting how neither Sansa nor Littlefinger mentioned Tyrion. Even though they didn't say Amethyst I'm still happy they used the term "the strangler" They actually handled the aftermath of Joff's death really well maybe even better than the book. Marg. was def in on it. It's noteworthy that her grandmother never mentioned Littlefinger or the ramifications the murder had on Tyrion.

Varys: oddly absent. Bronn: I can't help but wonder if he is part of an upcoming plot w/ Shae. In the book Cersei didn't resist Jaime nearly as much; I guess they are trying to appeal to the female audience, but Cersei is supposed to be a horrible person, and Jaime is still a sleaze at best, weak to his own indulgences.

So now HBO has officially ruined Oberyn, despite that his scene w/ Tywin was an added bonus. I love that they addressed how much he knows about poison and that he could have been but most likely was not the culprit. Side note: Charles Dance is a superb actor.

More Stannis? why? nothing's happening. No Mel this time? So we learn that the reason he hasn't gone to the wall yet is due to him not having enough ships. Interesting that they mentioned Braavos and the golden Company...where is this going?

Wildlings ! "the Thenns" are legit badass.

Dany: this new Daario fails to impress me. Would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce Strong Belwas!

Arya: The hound's burn marks or lack there of in this season is really bothering me.
I wish her story would move forward. I'm betting the hound will be ambushed.

fairly good episode, but not dragon level good. I give it a 6/10

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Show Jorah is still snitching, maybe?

Anyway, that just did not sit right with me. The whole scene, for that matter.

Then are tons of people saw these three dragons already.

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I'm kind of lost why people are still carrying on about Strong Belwas. Did we think there was a secret casting?

People have to moan about something.

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Wtf! Why has HBO changed the Jamie/Cersei scene to a rape scene?

It actually wasn't much of a change. In the book Cersei is pounding on his chest telling him to stop. People just love to over react. The scene was actually very much like the book. They just cut away rather than continue the scene.

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I thought the whole jaime and cersei seen was on point, no? In the books I thought she stated similar things, like, "not here", "this isnt right". I didnt see anything wrong with it I should say.

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It actually wasn't much of a change. In the book Cersei is pounding on his chest telling him to stop. People just love to over react. The scene was actually very much like the book. They just cut away rather than continue the scene.

why do people keep saying it was a rape scene anyways? It never crossed my mind that it was. It seemed like jaime was forceful and cersie was for and against all the same. Little overreaction I think.

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Jaime said that he only feels alive when he fights or when he has sex with Cersei. She refused his attempts in the first episode, so he thought that he must force her, just like kings and lords had to use violence and wars to assert their claims. I'm OK with this. There never has been such a thing like "Jaime turns from bad to good guy", just because he got some traumatic events in Season 3 (respectively his events of ASoS). Even if the consensuality might have existed in the books, this deviation does not change anything regarding Jaime's character development.



So, this is my first post in this forum and I want to apologize in advance for any grammar error. I'm from Germany and thus there can appear some mistakes.


Edited by Aerys Vengeance

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She stuffed it in her pocket and we never see it again, that I could find

Re: book Bronn vs show Bronn re:Book vs show Shae

If Shae returns it means Bronn was outsmarted by a Lannister flunky (not likely especially since Cersei was in charge of that task) or she passed it on to a Tyrell in which case they might have got her. Or Bronn sold out Tyrion which I would find very annoying - I can see them buying him off but not without him giving Tyrion a shot to outbid. They could have threatened him but only Cersei is insane enough to think Tyrion is guilty wo a trial and Bronn doesn't threaten easily. OTOH if they reverse gears on Show Shae why not Show Bronn. Then they could do whatever they want.

I think bron will be the one that goes with jaime on his travels up north to settle with the houses. I think they will do bron like they did pod. Both will understand and there wont be hard feelings. Just makes no sense to make bron screw tyrion on the show.

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Wow, that Tywin lecture to Tommen was just embarrassing. he was speaking to him as if Tommen is 7 year old or just retarded. Terrible infodumping too, this show is subtle as a sledgehammer way too often.

RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD, OK?

:lol:

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