FNF Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Guys, I think you're blowing this out of proportion... IMO, it's not far off what it was like in aSoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van West Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 "Well, it becomes consensual by the end, because anything for them ultimately results in a turn-on, especially a power struggle. Nobody really wanted to talk about what was going on between the two characters, so we had a rehearsal that was a blocking rehearsal. And it was very much about the earlier part with Charles (Dance) and the gentle verbal kidnapping of Cersei's last living son. Nikolaj came in and we just went through one physical progression and digression of what they went through, but also how to do it with only one hand, because it was Nikolaj. By the time you do that and you walk through it, the actors feel comfortable going home to think about it. The only other thing I did was that ordinarily, you rehearse the night before, and I wanted to rehearse that scene four days before, so that we could think about everything. And it worked out really well. That's one of my favorite scenes I've ever done." This was poorly directed then and regardless it would still be rape since she didn't give consent when he stuck it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm so glad this inevitable thread was given this very inoffensive name. Continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Guys, I think you're blowing this out of proportion... IMO, it's not far off what it was like in aSoS.I think for non-book readers though, the only way to interpret that is rape. Without the benefit of the book's description of how it goes down, it's just Jaime forcing himself on a Cersei yelling "no" and "stop" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van West Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Guys, I think you're blowing this out of proportion... IMO, it's not far off what it was like in aSoS. This is completely far off. Cersei told him not here and he forced a kiss on her at worst. Then Cersei gave her consent to Jaime for sex. This is Cersei pleading him to stop and Jaime saying he doesn't care has he forced himself completely on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalibakCruel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Is rape worst than pushing a kid to his death BECAUSE you were fucking your sister? Really, IN BOOK he fucked his sister NEXT to his dead son's body INSIDE a Sept AFTER he meet Brienne and started his "path to redemption". He was still quite a disgusting man.No it's not, which is why he needs redemption. Good guys don't need redemption.Yeah in the books he was still morally grey and in love with Cersei. But it's one thing to be disgusting, and another to be a rapist...again....Rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Lannister Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 "Well, it becomes consensual by the end, because anything for them ultimately results in a turn-on, especially a power struggle. Nobody really wanted to talk about what was going on between the two characters, so we had a rehearsal that was a blocking rehearsal. And it was very much about the earlier part with Charles (Dance) and the gentle verbal kidnapping of Cersei's last living son. Nikolaj came in and we just went through one physical progression and digression of what they went through, but also how to do it with only one hand, because it was Nikolaj. By the time you do that and you walk through it, the actors feel comfortable going home to think about it. The only other thing I did was that ordinarily, you rehearse the night before, and I wanted to rehearse that scene four days before, so that we could think about everything. And it worked out really well. That's one of my favorite scenes I've ever done." This was poorly directed then and regardless it would still be rape since she didn't give consent when he stuck it in. Agreed. Didn't Cersei say "this is wrong?" ugh. I can't see where this is going. Now my unsullied partner thinks Jaime is a a rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Pipes Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It was such a weird scene. It's clearly not consensual, then Ceresi starts kissing him in return and then it returns to nonconsensual. When D and D stick to the book scenes with Jaime, they do great. When they decided to go into business for themselves, you have Jaime kinslaying and raping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van West Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Agreed. Didn't Cersei say "this is wrong?" ugh. I can't see where this is going. Now my unsullied partner thinks Jaime is a a rapist. Well, TV Jaime is a rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think they conveyed that pretty damn badly. Cersei's shouting at him to get off from start to finish; at no point did I think, "Well okay, that suddenly became consensual." This. If it was meant to come across as consensual, it most certainly did not work with Cersei saying "no, no, no it's not right". And Cersei didn't look exactly like she was enjoying herself either. I'm starting to question LH's acting, too, she's so hammy and and dreadful. If it was meant to be consensual, she certainly did not act like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Rape in real life = awful. No one should NEVER under ANY circumstance, defend it.Rape in fiction = symbolic act related to power. No one real was harmed. And why don't we have a thread saying "Why do they treat the Thenns that way"? Because what they did was also awkward and uncomfortable to watch. Didn't GRRM himself say that people was always offended by sex but not the violence and gore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsLibby Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Reating the reviews in already and from Time to random bloggers, it's all rape. This is not being viewed as being agreed upon intimacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 In the books Jaime just got back to KL, he didn't previously get rejected by Cersei as he was in the show. That's why that scene is more rape-like in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0bR Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The director really said that? He probably sees "consensual" differently than most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Pipes Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Reating the reviews in already and from Time to random bloggers, it's all rape. This is not being viewed as being agreed upon intimacy Yeah, D and D managed to screw up the portrayal of one of the show's most fascinating characters. When you have a bunch of people thinking one of your character's is a rapist when he's not in the books, you've created a problem. This is why D and D can't be left alone with stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNF Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think for non-book readers though, the only way to interpret that is rape. Without the benefit of the book's description of how it goes down, it's just Jaime forcing himself on a Cersei yelling "no" and "stop" I get it, but Cersei was kissing back throughout. This is completely far off. Cersei told him not here and he forced a kiss on her at worst. Then Cersei gave her consent to Jaime for sex. This is Cersei pleading him to stop and Jaime saying he doesn't care has he forced himself completely on her. I think you're off to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The director really said that? He probably sees "consensual" differently than most of us. I agree. It was most certainly not consensual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNF Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My God, the hysterics - people on tumblr - 'worst episode ever!' :laugh: I feel like I just walked in on a Tumblr post here tbh :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalibakCruel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Rape in real life = awful. No one should NEVER under ANY circumstance, defend it.Rape in fiction = symbolic act related to power. No one real was harmed. And why don't we have a thread saying "Why do they treat the Thenns that way"? Because what they did was also awkward and uncomfortable to watch. Didn't GRRM himself say that people was always offended by sex but not the violence and gore?I'd say it has a lot to do with us being very far removed from real life violence, and the violence being something easy to separate from (had it been more graphic or traumatic, you'd see SOME backlash). While rape is very real for a lot of people and it's an invasion of our self that illicits a response.If I had to guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My review, with some thoughts on the scene. I have been rewatching that scene quite a bit over the weeks. There's four points I would note: 1) As they're slipping down to their knees, it's fairly clear that she actively kisses him back, grabbing at his face... and then pushing him away. But the camera is playing tricks here: when she's kissing back, it suddenly dips down to sort-of-but-not-really obscure, and next its focused on Jaime's hands... 2) ... but at the same time, it sure _looks_ like her hands are fumbling around his waist area too. 3) The final shot of her hand clenching at the cloth is pretty standard iconography in film and television to indicate passionate lovemaking. 4) Taking it to the books, when Bran witnesses Jaime and Cersei having sex, and then again when Jaime has sex with her on his return from King's Landing, Cersei protests... and then gives in. The main difference in this scene as compared to the novels is that Cersei both appears to give in and at the same time continues protesting. It makes it all more ambiguous, and I think this all ties to the changes they've made to Cersei's character on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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