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Why do they treat Jaime that way?


MsLibby

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Most people are perceiving it as rape. I even thought it was rape.



So if the showrunners didn't want to present it that way, but it came off like that in the episode then that's a huge failure on their part. Jaime the Kingslayer, Jaime the Rapist.


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Ugh. Ugh. Ugh! This really, really annoys me! I don't even know where to begin...



Taking one of the qualities away from Jaime that made him, at least a little bit, respectable throughout everything; his undying love for Cersei. ( Yes she is his sister, he loves her and you don't choose who you love ect... ) To have him rape her was both disturbing to watch and, just generally made me feel down. It is pure character assassination while Tyrion is being made out to be so noble; while he is the rapist... they're just shifting the blame away from Tyrion and it frustrates me.



If they didn't mean for it to come across as rape, they did a poor job. A very, very poor job.


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Book version clearly wasn't rape btw

Yeah....

How about we quote the entire scene, and not cherrypick bits so we get a good idea of what actually happened;

There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened for his tongue. “No,” she said weakly when his lips moved down her neck, “not here. The septons . . .”

“The Others can take the septons.” He kissed her again, kissed her silent, kissed her until she moaned. Then he knocked the candles aside and lifted her up onto the Mother’s altar, pushing up her skirts and the silken shift beneath. She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, murmuring about the risk, the danger, about their father, about the septons, about the wrath of gods. He never heard her. He undid his breeches and climbed up and pushed her bare white legs apart. One hand slid up her thigh and underneath her smallclothes. When he tore them away, he saw that her moon’s blood was on her, but it made no difference.

“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,”

Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined.

But no sooner were they done than the queen said, “Let me up. If we are discovered like this . . .”

Reluctantly he rolled away and helped her off the altar. The pale marble was smeared with blood. Jaime wiped it clean with his sleeve, then bent to pick up the candles he had knocked over. Fortunately they had all gone out when they fell. If the sept had caught fire I might never have noticed.

“This was folly.” Cersei pulled her gown straight.

Sorry, but I cannot see how this wasn't rape.

Cersei did not want to have sex. She said no, she pleaded to him not to. She attempted to resist him physically.

When that failed, she didn't consent to the sex, she tried to speed up the sex. She knew at that point she couldn't stop him, and she just wanted it to be over, and to minimise the risk of them being caught.

If you ever doubt that fact, look at what she says once it's over. "This was folly". She didn't want to have the sex, before or after it occured.

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I've never been so disappointed in the board and its leadership, insofar as you, Ran, are the representative of it.

you have a woman saying no, saying this is wrong, but because her hand is clutching at the man, that means yes?

I can certainly understand a defense of the scene as a poor writing/editing decision and poor cutting of the scene, rather than a deliberate decision to make Jaime a rapist, but to try to convince all the people who heard a person saying no, and believing that no mean no, that, oh but her body is saying yes if you look really closely, that is disappointing and not what I expected here.

How anyone can watch that scene and not think it is a rape scene is ridiculous. The book scene is extremely clear that both Jaime and Cersei are so in lust that they literally cannot contain their passion. They have sex in a public place, in a holy sept, and in front of the corpse of their dead King-Son. In the books it could not be more obvious that they are emotional from Joffrey's death, from being apart so long, and Cersei living months (years even) of her life thinking that her other half would never be with her again.

The show had a rape scene from start to finish. "No, no, no". "I don't care". Rape is fine to show on film. The Sopranos and OZ had rape scenes and they were incredible storylines. But this is such a poor change from the books. Maybe they are just making dumb changes like killing pregnant Talisa at the Red Wedding. Trying to add shock value to try to top viewers' reactions from Ned's killing. "Hey we are pushing the boundaries of television" or whatever.

The show has never had the subtly of the books. I see most of the unpredictable changes like this as being times where the HBO writers didn't know how to subtly do something. Like make Jaime look bad. So they just said "okay let's have him rape someone....how about Cersei?".

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I can't believe people are more mad about the show portrayal than the books, in the book she gets raped but enjoys it but in the show she doesn't enjoy it, and the latter is the one who gets demonized?

Given she's mourning her dead son, and on her period, I'm guessing she didn't enjoy it in the book either.

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I can't believe people are more mad about the show portrayal than the books, in the book she gets raped but enjoys it but in the show she doesn't enjoy it, and the latter is the one who gets demonized?

Cersei gives consent beforehand. She even says "do me now".

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How about we quote the entire scene, and not cherrypick bits so we get a good idea of what actually happened;

Sorry, but I cannot see how this wasn't rape.

Cersei did not want to have sex. She said no, she pleaded to him not to. She attempted to resist him physically.

When that failed, she didn't consent to the sex, she tried to speed up the sex. She knew at that point she couldn't stop him, and she just wanted it to be over, and to minimise the risk of them being caught.

If you ever doubt that fact, look at what she says once it's over. "This was folly". She didn't want to have the sex, before or after it occured.

She didn't want to have sex here. She didn't say she didn't want to have sex at all and she consents beforehand.

Also once you cum you tend to think more clearly (applies to all genders).

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She didn't want to have sex here.

Correct, which means Jaime forced her to against her will. Which is rape.

Just because you may be willing to have consensual sex with a person in different circumstances doesn't make it not rape.

She didn't say she didn't want to have sex and she consents beforehand.

Of course she said she didn't want to. She says "no", and afterwards says it was a folly.

Also once you cum you tend to think more clearly (for all genders).

What makes you think Cersei achieved an orgasm?

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"'Hurry,' she was whispering now, 'Quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime, Jaime, Jaime.' Her hands helped guide him. 'Yes,' Cersei said as he thrust, 'My brother, my sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you're home now, you're home.' She kissed his ear and stroked his short, bristly hair." - ASoS Jaime VII

Tonight's episode bore not one shred of similarity to the source material. In fact, it was as different as it could possibly be. Is this a joke?

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The whole "questionable R-word" thing is a means of boosting ratings and maybe even potentially increase the number of readers, nothing more, nothing less. It does no damage to the basic storyline, yet it promotes conversation. Those of us that have read how it really happen know that it was, in fact, not a rape. Those that don't will be talking about it
--

"She said no!! No means NO!!"

vs.

"She wasn't exactly fighting that hard, did you see the way she groped him? Besides, she said 'no not HERE'. It wasn't really rape because it's not that she didn't want him, it's just that she didn't feel right about doing it THERE..."

vs.

"Well it didn't happen that way in the books..."

Etc, etc, etc.

Talk makes people that haven't seen the show get curious and watch to come to a conclusion for themselves, thereby increasing the number of viewers. Viewers that hear that it didn't happen that way in the book will (they hope) encourage said viewers to get curious as to what else may be changed from the original storyline, which increases book sales.

In the end, it all boils down to the bottom line. Basic marketing strategy at its finest... <_<

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