Why do they treat Jaime that way?

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Forgive me if this has been posted, but according to the director Alex Graves the sex became consensual by the end. Director's quote is the last paragraph:

http://www.ibtimes.com/game-thrones-season-4-spoilers-breaker-chains-rape-scene-raises-controversy-1574209

They definitely could have done a better job of making that clear. Debate over? Lol

[sastelise]

This scene was poorly handled. As far as I remember from the book, it was consensual and it happened immediately when Jamie returned to KL. In the TV version, he'd been begging for sex in the episode before, and was denied; so how could his approach here not be thought of as anything but rape? Maybe, the intent of the producers was for Cersei to mean "no" in the sense that this is not appropriate in front of our dead son, but when has Cersei ever felt the need to be appropriate? For non-readers, this scene might also lead viewers to question the Jamie/Cercei dynamic altogether - maybe she was forced into this relationship by Jamie all along? But in the book it's clear that they are co-conspirators.

Obviously they need Jamie to become so disillusioned with everything that he sends out Brienne to find and protect Sansa (it looks like next week's episode will cover this) and wants to get as far away from Cercei as possible. But in the TV show they seem to be building his disillusion on sexual rejection, which dilutes the complexity of his character. In the books he seems increasingly disgusted with the whole scene in KL.

[The God of Death]

Forgive me if this has been posted, but according to the director Alex Graves the sex became consensual by the end:

http://www.ibtimes.com/game-thrones-season-4-spoilers-breaker-chains-rape-scene-raises-controversy-1574209

They definitely could have done a better job of making that clear. Debate over? Lol

I've been saying this as I can, but it's not going to stop the debate.

To me, it's pretty clear cut - the writers and directors intended the scene to come across as consensual by the end. It was just poor execution and it wasn't as clear to the audience as they thought it would be.

The scene was just poorly executed. It's really that simple.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I've been saying this as I can, but it's not going to stop the debate.

To me, it's pretty clear cut - the writers and directors intended the scene to come across as consensual by the end. It was just poor execution and it wasn't as clear to the audience as they thought it would be.

The scene was just poorly executed. It's really that simple.

I agree. They did a poor, poor job. Maybe I need to bring my rating down a little bit. I didn't realize there was such a controversy till an hour ago.

[Night'sQueen]

Spare us the phony outrage. Only a very small few say this wasn't a rape. The real interesting / disturbing thing is why Cersei doesn't do anything about it afterwards. Sadly, the University Code of Conduct manual does not address this issue. It is not an uncommon event.

Spare me your lecturing/trolling. There are too many people saying this wasn't a rape when it clearly was. And if the director truly wasn't trying to convey a rape than this was a serious failure. As a fan, this changes the character arc for Jaime and the dynamic between Jaime and Cersei way too much for comfort. But beyond that, as a woman, for anyone to look at that scene on the show and say it was ambiguous in any way is really disturbing.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I'm willing to accept that it was poorly shot, but it was not rape. I wish D&D would make a statement for the sake of Jamie's character, but they probably love the controversy.

[The God of Death]

Spare me your lecturing/trolling. There are too many people saying this wasn't a rape when it clearly was. And if the director truly wasn't trying to convey a rape than this was a serious failure. As a fan, this changes the character arc for Jaime and the dynamic between Jaime and Cersei way too much for comfort. But beyond that, as a woman, for anyone to look at that scene on the show and say it was ambiguous in any way is really disturbing.

Honestly, the only people in this whole thread who genuinely piss me off are the people saying they are "disturbed" by anyone who even questions whether the scene is rape.

We all know that "no means no". I don't see anyone here saying otherwise. No one is saying what Jaime did was anything other than reprehensible.

But for many people it is clear that Cersei was returning Jaime's passion even if she didn't want it right there. She was kissing back and pulling Jaime into her.

There is no doubt that either the writers or directors screwed up. Because it's way too subtle, and overall it definitely seems like a rape. They were trying to show Cersei wanted it by the end, but they screwed up.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

I know Kat commented on this but I wish to clarify my point. Its a fictional world, so its fine to wish things on characters that you wouldn't on a real person. Stating that someone deserves to die as a consequence of their actions is very different than wishing this on a person in real life. There are certain subjects though, where we have much less tolerance, particularly rape. Given the statistics about the number of people who dealt with rape during their lives, there are certainly a number of boarders who have either experienced this personally or are close to someone who has. Many of them have heard the same justifications to say a fictional rape was ok or that a character deserved it used to defend real life sexual assaults and rapes. Hence, we have a very low tolerance for posts containing this type of content. A similar approach is applied to torture.

Case in point: GTA V. Here's a game in which you spend a great deal of time carjacking, robbing, and killing all sorts of random NPC's, and a lot of players who have no problem with that violence were disturbed by the torture sequence in which the victim ends up surviving and being driven to the airport.

Rape is a more sensitive topic than death. I don't know exactly why, but it is. So too is torture. So too is animal cruelty, which is why Ned's killing of the dire wolf in 1.2 caused a bit of a stir despite having come 60 seconds after The Hound trotted Mycah's dead carcass across frame on the back of his horse (which was met with relative indifference).

An interesting topic to be sure, but it's a red herring as far as it relates to the conversation at hand.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Honestly, the only people in this whole thread who genuinely piss me off are the people saying they are "disturbed" by anyone who even questions whether the scene is rape.

We all know that "no means no". I don't see anyone here saying otherwise. No one is saying what Jaime did was anything other than reprehensible.

But for many people it is clear that Cersei was returning Jaime's passion even if she didn't want it right there. She was kissing back and pulling Jaime into her.

There is no doubt that either the writers or directors screwed up. Because it's way too subtle, and overall it definitely seems like a rape. They were trying to show that it was consensual, but they screwed up.

I agree. The director said it was NOT rape. I've seen plenty of sex scenes in movies where the guy comes on to the girl, the girl says no for whatever reason and then a split second later she comes on to him. That's what the director was going for but he obviously failed miserably. But that's all this is--a directorial failure. It's not D&D trying to destroy Jamie's character arc, so please enough already with the indignation.

[Kat]

Lol. Very nice. I hope a little joke to lighten the mood is ok.

You know what's hilarious after two mods have come in here to clean things up? Rape jokes! :stillsick: FFS people, you're making this board look terrible. Have some class. This thread has run its course (and is too long). If someone wants to start it up with a different perspective, quotes, etc. please do.