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Why do they treat Jaime that way?


MsLibby

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D and D said in the Inside the Episode Guide that "Cersei said no and Jaime forces himself on her." GREAT change, guys.... :bang:



It's possible Graves shot the scene a different way and it was edited a completely different way. Although I raised my eyebrows at Graves saying it was one of his favorite scenes ever to film.


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I think that David & Dan wanted to emphasize that Cersei is the one thing Jaime cares about... and how utterly devastating it is for him that their relationship seems to have fallen apart... Whereas it's not as important to Cersei.


I think this is the show's version of showing that.


Some may feel it "ruins" Jaime's character... some actually said similar things when show Jaime killed his Lannister cousin in Season 2, which also didn't happen in the book.


But I for one don't think it was totally out of keeping with Jaime from the book. Yes, Jaime hates rape. Yes, Jaime loves his sister... but Jaime is a complicated character prone to doing things instinctually, and he felt extremely hurt and vulnerable.... so yeah, what happened is not totally out of character for me.

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Cercei kept saying no but she obviously wanted it otherwise why was she kissing him back so much? This wasn't rape, it just shows what a weird relationship they have, and after it just suffered a huge throttle... they're both in a very unstable state, especially Cercei that's why she was saying no all the time but on the other hand seeking his affection and comfort.


I think people just saw it as rape because it wasn't so well directed, and it all happened too quickly...


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Cercei kept saying no but she obviously wanted it otherwise why was she kissing him back so much? This wasn't rape, it just shows what a weird relationship they have, and after it just suffered a huge throttle... they're both in a very unstable state, especially Cercei that's why she was saying no all the time but on the other hand seeking his affection and comfort.

I think people just saw it as rape because it wasn't so well directed, and it all happened too quickly...

Yeah.

Unfortunately, most people will gloss over it, but the fact that Cersei keeps kissing back at Jaime several times shows that it's clearly not pure rape like people are making it out to be.

Who kisses back their raper?

This is not to "excuse" Jaime's behavior. But still.

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Attempting to speed up the sex once you've realised you can't stop it doesn't make it consensual sex.

What makes it consensual was that she clearly wanted him. She obviously just didn't want to be caught in the act.

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D and D said in the Inside the Episode Guide that "Cersei said no and Jaime forces himself on her." GREAT change, guys.... :bang:

This makes no sense whatsoever, he just got his hand cut off and jumped into a bear pit to save Brienne.

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Exactly! It was porn writing at best - I'm sorry book purists but it was cringing. An old man's (or 15-year old's) idea of what 'slutty women' would do. Bleh. At least the show was a bit more believable...

But the issue, at least for me is, that the writers, directors, and producers didn't even realize what they were doing. They filmed a rape scene, pure and simple. Nothing inherently wrong with that as you're right, it's a ridiculous scene in the books (although I wish they had just omitted the scene entirely) but the fact that they somehow think what they filmed is by any means "consensual" is beyond absurd (rape culture, etc, etc). Cersei is expressly saying no the whole time and Jaime forces himself into her.

I thought it was a strange scene watching but I didn't really think twice about it until I read that the director has it in his head that he somehow made a consensual sex scene and not rape.

What makes it consensual was that she clearly wanted him. She obviously just didn't want to be caught in the act.

Cue the "I know you want it" rape apologists.

Unfortunately, most people will gloss over it, but the fact that Cersei keeps kissing back at Jaime several times shows that it's clearly not pure rape like people are making it out to be.

OMFG dude! Rape is fucking rape. There are no "variants" of rape like "pure rape" or "unpure rape." I think I have to read this thread now or else I'm going to become really fucking angry.

Cersei said no, multiple times, and did not give consent. That's text book rape. Gripe all you want about how they're changing character dynamics around but don't go around trying to justify rape.

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How hard would it have been for them to just extend that scene by 15-20 seconds so that they'd have time for a "Yes" line from her, and then a "WTF did we just do?" line?

Or cut it shorter and end after he calls her hateful and goes to turn her?

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This makes no sense whatsoever, he just got his hand cut off and jumped into a bear pit to save Brienne.

Yeah exactly, clearly within the context of this show, when you have a person who does bad things start doing good things there is obviously no way they would ever do some bad things again.

It's not like this series embraces complex characters or anything.

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I have nothing against rough sex, but her continual "please not here" reminded me of her begging Tywin not to marry her to Loras. It really rubbed me the wrong way. She was shoving his face away, and obviously she couldn't scream because that would reveal them. So yeah, not really seeing the consensual, unless one also thinks Joan from Mad Men getting raped by her fiancee in Don's office was consensual because she wasn't gouging his eyes out.



And anyone who says Cersei "deserved" some rapey punishment can fuck off.


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'Twas a rape. I have nothing against rough sex, but her continual "please not here" reminded me of her begging Tywin not to marry her to Loras. It really rubbed me the wrong way. She was shoving his face away, and obviously she couldn't scream because that would reveal them. So yeah, not really seeing the consensual, unless one also thinks Joan from Mad Men getting raped by her fiancee in Don's office was consensual because she wasn't gouging his eyes out.

And anyone who says Cersei "deserved" some rapey punishment can fuck off.

She was kissing back though.

If there was no part of her that didn't want it, you really think she would be kissing back?

Not saying it wasn't rape. But between two lovers, with her kissing back... I wouldn't call it pure she-didn't-want-it-at-all rape.

Certainly not condoning Jaime's behavior. (does this really need to be said? seems so due to the sensitivity of the issue for many people)

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They just ruined the show. It's one thing to have Drogo be rapey. It's his culture and he doesn't know yet that he might love this woman.

But it's completely out of character for Jaime to rape Cersei, and it's completely unnecessary, too. He doesn't care that "it's not right." That's cool. But he HAS to care if she says no, or he's just a rapist molesting his sister. The whole moral ambiguity about the Lannister twins was that their love for one another was real and mutual and non-coercive, and therefore moral judgements on it had to be just about the infidelity, and the incest itself. Now he's just a guy who abuses his sister, and there's no ambiguity left.

Nice job, idiots. I get that a lot of men don't understand what rape is, and that they don't understand that if she's yelling no, that means no, and that they don't get that women really don't change their minds halfway through, either. So? Have a woman direct the scene, if you can't figure out the difference between passionate sex and rape. Those POOR actors! One minute they're in the hottest show on HBO, and the next, they're in a turkey even their biggest fans don't reallly like, all because of one nit-witted director.

Why couldn't they just do what it says in the books? It's uncomfortable enough, with the corpse there. What were they thinking? Why did they have to make it rape? Whose real-life relationship were they copying, that they thought would be so much better?

Lolwut? Did you just say men don't know what rape is? I find that an incredibly insulting comment, honestly.

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To be honest,that scene gave me chills and so not the good kind either!



I never thought that I would seriously feel pity for Cersei and rage on her part....I always felt that Jaimie idolized his sister as she and Tyrion were the only people that mattered to him and then he does this to her in the scene.



This scene was a WTF moment for me.


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Lolwut? Did you just say men don't know what rape is? I find that an incredibly insulting comment, honestly.

I don't find it insulting, because I am not someone who takes insults from the broadly defined group of which I am a part.

For example, I am a man, but take no offense when people say bad things about men. I am an American, but take no offense when people say bad things about Americans.

But the comment this woman made was certainly incredibly ignorant.

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