[Show and Book Spoilers] A Balanced review of Stannis.

[Thelastactionhero]

Well, on the bright side, he's not burning infidels. So that's good

On the downside, he still does nothing and shows none of his dry wit. And ambiguously threatens to kill Davos and generally treats him like shit.

Oh, well. Shireen's great, though

Yeah the threat was dumb, but it wasn't as bad as other scenes they've done with him. That's the only nice thing about D&D's adaptation, it's been so botched that mediocre scenes like this look that much better. I actually liked some of the dialogue though. His line about "they don't have enough men between the three of them to raid a pantry," was hilarious. I was a little surprised they had him so opposed to hiring sell swords though? Book!Stannis is cool with it, and Show!Stannis is cool with murdering any number of innocents to get his birth right. They obviously aren't handling his arc with care, but what can you do? I'm sitting back with my popcorn and enjoying the show. This is a companion piece to Martin's masterful piece of fantasy and nothing more. It's funny how some fans actually think the show is evidence that our interpretations of Stan from the text are misreadings and projections. The show isn't the definitive word on anything regarding the books, it's an adaptation by fans just like us with an extremely large budget.

[Konradsmith]

Their scene is one of the ones that I hope has an extended version on the DVD or bluray. Maybe we'd get Stan's weddings line or more background on the Golden Company there.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I think the Stannis fans are to harsh on TV Stannis. Stannis burnt Axell because he refused an order and we all know how law and order Stannis is, can't have dissent in the ranks.

Plus Stannis says he hates certain things but tolerates them all the same, doesn't seem that different from book Stannis.

Except it boils down to the same thing: He killed Axel over religion. Axel is now a martyr for his religious beliefs regardless. This argument just seems like a silly technicality.

I'll give it to Game of Thrones: Ascent (the Facebook game). They actually made Axel guilty of treason in the game (he fled with secrets to buy is way in with the Lannisters) while still keeping with the show's religious persecution tones (because it is after all, mostly based on the show, but the storyline writers are clearly book readers too).

Yeah the threat was dumb, but it wasn't as bad as other scenes they've done with him. That's the only nice thing about D&D's adaptation, it's been so botched that mediocre scenes like this look that much better. I actually liked some of the dialogue though. His line about "they don't have enough men between the three of them to raid a pantry," was hilarious. I was a little surprised they had him so opposed to hiring sell swords though? Book!Stannis is cool with it, and Show!Stannis is cool with murdering any number of innocents to get his birth right. They obviously aren't handling his arc with care, but what can you do? I'm sitting back with my popcorn and enjoying the show. This is a companion piece to Martin's masterful piece of fantasy and nothing more. It's funny how some fans actually think the show is evidence that our interpretations of Stan from the text are misreadings and projections. The show isn't the definitive word on anything regarding the books, it's an adaptation by fans just like us with an extremely large budget.

Or anyone who isn't Tyrion or Dany. Look at the 50+ page Jamie Thread for that debacle. Sandor was turned into a bandit. And the entire Joffery assassination plot would have been ruined if Sansa decided Dontos's necklace didn't go good with her dress because Dontos in no way suggested she should wear it at the wedding.

I truly love the show. It's to their credit despite my bitching, I look forward to it every week. It's easily my favorite show on TV right now and hasn't gone off the rails with its adaptation like the Walking Dead. But that's still not going to stop me from going "What the fuck?" at some this shit.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Book Stannis : The Golden Company would be my first choice, if they are not already under contract. Seek for them in the Disputed Lands, if need be. But first hire as many swords as you can find in Braavos, and send them to me by way of Eastwatch. Archers as well, we need more bows."

Show Stannis : yuke! They are "Sellswords" !

A wise, centered king in one side, and a 7 years old little girl who had just seem a spider in the other. Every single scene is a staab to our character.

[Thelastactionhero]

Their scene is one of the ones that I hope has an extended version on the DVD or bluray. Maybe we'd get Stan's weddings line or more background on the Golden Company there.

Me too. I kind of doubt it, but that would be awesome. Some of what you've pointed out here and there has me hopeful that Stannis will get his due later on, so we'll just have to wait and see. If they actually pull it off, it could be amazing.

Or anyone who isn't Tyrion or Dany. Look at the 50+ page Jamie Thread for that debacle. Sandor was turned into a bandit. And the entire Joffery assassination plot would have been ruined if Sansa decided Dontos's necklace didn't go good with her dress because Dontos in no way suggested she should wear it at the wedding.

I truly love the show. It's to their credit despite my bitching, I look forward to it every week. It's easily my favorite show on TV right now and hasn't gone off the rails with its adaptation like the Walking Dead. But that's still not going to stop me from going "What the fuck?" at some this shit.

I'm totally with you man. I have to say though, it's annoying that when they severely damage a fan favorite like Jaime (I like him a lot myself), the complaints against D&D become legitimate, but when we bring up book deviations that have potentially ruined Stannis, we get treated like fanboys and whiners. And with all that said I too will be impatentially awaiting next Sunday at 9 with my six pack of craft beer. We're still incredibly lucky to have an adaptation that comes as close to capturing the essence of Martin's work as this one does.

[aFeastForDragons]

^I'm torn on how I feel about the show. I know I and a lot of people her could write a much better episode than the recent one but every now and then they do have their shining moments.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

Me too. I kind of doubt it, but that would be awesome. Some of what you've pointed out here and there has me hopeful that Stannis will get his due later on, so we'll just have to wait and see. If they actually pull it off, it could be amazing.

I'm totally with you man. I have to say though, it's annoying that when they severely damage a fan favorite like Jaime (I like him a lot myself), the complaints against D&D become legitimate, but when we bring up book deviations that have potentially ruined Stannis, we get treated like fanboys and whiners. And with all that said I too will be impatentially awaiting next Sunday at 9 with my six pack of craft beer. We're still incredibly lucky to have an adaptation that comes as close to capturing the essence of Martin's work as this one does.

I dislike the recent depiction of both Jaime and Stannis, but I don't think they are nowhere near as close to being ruined. If Stannis saves the Walls and everyone there likes him for it, and then promises justice for the Boltons, he will soon become a fan favorite. Same thing for Jaime if he sends Brienne after Sansa, defends Tyrion on the trial and then helps him escape. I believe they are very easy to salvage.

[Jslay427]

Book Stannis > TV Stannis

Dave and Dan hate Stannis as many other book readers do.

Let it go folks, they have the power to pollute millions of folks minds about Stannis. Only us bookreaders will know the truth.

Season 3 was bad enough, having him call his brother in law an "infidel" was too much. Next they will have him declare a Fatwa against all who deny him as their king. Calling Stannis butchered by D and D is putting it lightly.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Season 3 was bad enough, having him call his brother in law an "infidel" was too much. Next they will have him declare a Fatwa against all who deny him as their king. Calling Stannis butchered by D and D is putting it lightly.

Agreed.

[Good Master]

Not sure how book Stannis has so many hardcore fanatics. I like his character and think he has his badass moments, but the shows portrayal of him seems fair to me. I completely understand how any man in his position would be frustrated and confused, as D and D portray him. We don't see it in the books, most likely due to zero Stannis POVs, but I believe he is experiencing those feelings nonetheless. HE IS JUST A MAN.

He won some good battles, survived Storms End, was thrown back at the Blackwater, hesays some pretty cool lines and lets a Red Priestess work him like a puppet. Why do the Stanatics worship him so? What is so damn special about him?

I've read all 5 books twice. Love the books, really like the show.

[Thelastactionhero]

Not sure how book Stannis has so many hardcore fanatics. I like his character and think he has his badass moments, but the shows portrayal of him seems fair to me. I completely understand how any man in his position would be frustrated and confused, as D and D portray him. We don't see it in the books, most likely due to zero Stannis POVs, but I believe he is experiencing those feelings nonetheless. HE IS JUST A MAN.

He won some good battles, survived Storms End, was thrown back at the Blackwater, hesays some pretty cool lines and lets a Red Priestess work him like a puppet. Why do the Stanatics worship him so? What is so damn special about him?

I've read all 5 books twice. Love the books, really like the show.

The fact that you think he has no autonomy shows you read his arc carelessly. Especially A Dance With Dragons when he's kicking ass and taking names up North. And also, none of us here want him to be some immaculate superhero. That's not why we like the character. We want the battle-hardened, just, but morally conflicted king we found compelling in the books, rather than a religious fanatic and or "puppet" as you suggested.

[Belisarius09]

The fact that you think he has no autonomy shows you read his arc carelessly. Especially A Dance With Dragons when he's kicking ass and taking names up North. And also, none of us here want him to be some immaculate superhero. That's not why we like the character. We want the battle-hardened, just, but morally conflicted king we found compelling in the books, rather than a religious fanatic and or "puppet" as you suggested.

:agree:

[~DarkHorse~]

They better keep his nod of approval towards the 'Edd, fetch me a block' scene and his insult about a cook being a better LC than Slynt.

When that head rolls on the ground, he will be all like I like this guy!

If they screw up his Wall scenes, then I'll get annoyed...more annoyed.

[House Ross]

The fact that you think he has no autonomy shows you read his arc carelessly. Especially A Dance With Dragons when he's kicking ass and taking names up North. And also, none of us here want him to be some immaculate superhero. That's not why we like the character. We want the battle-hardened, just, but morally conflicted king we found compelling in the books, rather than a religious fanatic and or "puppet" as you suggested.

Puppet may be too far. He is without a doubt being pushed and pulled by Mel and her religion. She is influencing his decisions, in the book and show alike. Burning idols, burning disobeyers, burning leaches to kill kings. Hardly portrayed as a "fanatic" in the show. Disgusted look on his face as Selyse goes off about their souls. You make it sound as if he is being shown praying over a brazier all night. .

When his Dance With Dragons scenes roll around, along with North of The Wall, he will be kicking ass and taking names. Until then, he is still recently defeated and seeking options.

A profile picture with Stannis' head on Rambo's body..................... :cheers:

Stephen Dillane does a wonderful battle hardened, just, morally conflicted man. He acts the shit out of battle hardened, the story of Davos fingers has been mentioned several times, and he has recently been oozing moral conflict.

The scene with Stannis and Mel and the shore before her leaving for Gendry bugged me a bit, but that Stannis lasted about 2 episodes and he was back to determination. I've always enjoyed Stannis, book and show.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

Not sure how book Stannis has so many hardcore fanatics. I like his character and think he has his badass moments, but the shows portrayal of him seems fair to me. I completely understand how any man in his position would be frustrated and confused, as D and D portray him. We don't see it in the books, most likely due to zero Stannis POVs, but I believe he is experiencing those feelings nonetheless. HE IS JUST A MAN.

He won some good battles, survived Storms End, was thrown back at the Blackwater, hesays some pretty cool lines and lets a Red Priestess work him like a puppet. Why do the Stanatics worship him so? What is so damn special about him?

I've read all 5 books twice. Love the books, really like the show.

If you think our problem is him being portrayed as frustrated and confused, then you have no idea what we're upset about.

It's the change from a morally complicated man who ultimately tries to do the right thing to a villain who for some reason is still around when the hero of the story, Tyrion Lannister, defeated him two seasons ago.

Book!Stannis executes people for capital crimes while dressing it up in religious ceremony becomes a man who happily executes unbelievers for his own gain (and him apparently making worshiping the Seven a capital crime really doesn't make it like Book!Stannis).

This has nothing to do with Stannis looking frustrated and confused or look like man rather than some godlike being. I don't know about you, but when I get frustrated and confused, I don't start murdering non-atheists. I also consider myself just a man despite not murdering those who don't share my beliefs (or lack of technically). Rather it is a case of "murdering someone for their faith is clearly evil," and the Stannis we are fans of and want to see on the show would not do that. Every person the character we are fans of would have been executed anyways. Yet, we do not see that character. We see monster who kills people for being "infidels."

Let's also look at the sacrifice (Edric/Gendry). Book!Stannis was everything you described. We would've fucking loved that. If D&D had delivered that Stannis, we'd be singing their praises. But we didn't get a season of Stannis grappling with a horrible moral choice of an innocent child* in order to save the whole world. At best, he seemed impatient. Steven Dillane is excellent as Stannis. If there was some deeper emotion or fear, he would have conveyed that. But really, the only reason we have to believe that Show!Stannis had any hesitation is because Davos actually says it. Book!Stannis actually shows someone who is frustrated and confused. He is someone who is torn between what is right. Show!Stannis has no hesitation. As soon as the first king dies, he's ready to do it. Even when it is no longer an option, he still bitches about it.

I could go, but I'm just going to leave it there. In summary, we would love if D&D gave us a morally complicated man who makes mistakes (both technical and moral) and feels confused and frustrated, because that is the character we love. Sadly, we get a rather flat villain who has no problems with murdering the innocent.

*To be fair to Show!Stannis, I also believe that murdering Gendry is a good thing even if Show!Gendry is slightly more tolerable than Book!Gendry.

[Thelastactionhero]

Puppet may be too far. He is without a doubt being pushed and pulled by Mel and her religion. She is influencing his decisions, in the book and show alike. Burning idols, burning disobeyers, burning leaches to kill kings. Hardly portrayed as a "fanatic" in the show. Disgusted look on his face as Selyse goes off about their souls. You make it sound as if he is being shown praying over a brazier all night. .

When his Dance With Dragons scenes roll around, along with North of The Wall, he will be kicking ass and taking names. Until then, he is still recently defeated and seeking options.

A profile picture with Stannis' head on Rambo's body..................... :cheers:

Stephen Dillane does a wonderful battle hardened, just, morally conflicted man. He acts the shit out of battle hardened, the story of Davos fingers has been mentioned several times, and he has recently been oozing moral conflict.

The scene with Stannis and Mel and the shore before her leaving for Gendry bugged me a bit, but that Stannis lasted about 2 episodes and he was back to determination. I've always enjoyed Stannis, book and show.

They have a lot of redeeming to do in order to make Stannis likeable in that arc after the way they've handled him. Lord Bronn of Stokeworth said most of what I would stated, but really, our concern is that because they've been so careless with him thus far, it's hard to say whether or not Stan will get his due later on. They've made tons of needless deviations from source material already, its not a far cry to think they won't change the context of later events and continue to make him look like this selfish douche who has none of the redeeming qualities that won him this loyal and incredibly vocal fanbase amongst book readers. And believe me, I seriously hope I'm wrong, and that Stannis is given a really kickass redemption arc after this Iron Bank shit goes down. It's still possible for that heel to face turn, but it has to be this season, or it won't happen at all. The Wall is his defining moment as a character, and the only reason I'm happy they're drawing it out is that now there's an opportunity for him to make that choice, rather than going North because Mel tells him to, as episode 10 of season 3 suggested.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

A profile picture with Stannis' head on Rambo's body..................... :cheers:

:cheers:

[House Ross]

The IB scene is so important. Stannis as a begger king is absolute bullshit and in no way his character. If they have him roll into Bravos, treat with Tycho in a manner of "Please help me I deserve it" then I'll be convinced D and D are ruining him. Dont see it happening, but who knows.

His image will be greatly rebuilt during and after Episode 9. Pretty excited for Stan, Jon and Mel. Just hang in there.

[lelele]

His taking a shot at Davos about freeing Gendry was sort of in-line with Show!Stannis though. If he can hold grudges for 15 years, albeit a more serious case, what's stopping him for holding another for just another week?

Sure Book!Stannis wouldn't have burnt Gendry with enthusiasm and would be relieved not to, but him holding grudges about something he wants as Show!Stannis wants to burn Gendry was a very Stannis-like trait.

[LuisDantas]

The show generally goes way out of its way to make Stannis look sympathetic without fully conflicting with the books.

That some people feel the opposite shows how much of that sympathy is on the eyes of the beholder, IMO. And perhaps also how little we understand of the actual nature and boundaries of Davos' devotion to Stannis from the books.

On the text, Davos seems to be almost afraid of even thinking about his own reasons. Probably a wise choice.