[Show and Book Spoilers] A Balanced review of Stannis.

[Van West]

The IB scene is so important. Stannis as a begger king is absolute bullshit and in no way his character. If they have him roll into Bravos, treat with Tycho in a manner of "Please help me I deserve it" then I'll be convinced D and D are ruining him. Dont see it happening, but who knows.

His image will be greatly rebuilt during and after Episode 9. Pretty excited for Stan, Jon and Mel. Just hang in there.

Haha, no.

Considering how they handled Jaime, I fully expect Stannis to ride up and kill Ygritte himself and then eat her.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Haha, no.

Considering how they handled Jaime, I fully expect Stannis to ride up and kill Ygritte himself and then eat her.

And making Jon watch that ordeal.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Haha, no.

Considering how they handled Jaime, I fully expect Stannis to ride up and kill Ygritte himself and then eat her.

And making Jon watch that ordeal.

:eek: :shocked: :crying:

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

:eek: :shocked: :crying:

True story.

[averde]

BTW for all you questioning D&D for making Stannis threaten to kill Davos let me point to a line from the books.

" It is his silences you should fear, not his words."

Can't wait for people to get upset when he threatens to kill Jon as some sort of character assassination.

Your trying to defend the show by picking and choosing things without acknowledging anything else about the issue. Look at all the things these threads have compiled about Stannis changes and things left out, often for no reason at all, and tell me that character hasn't been character assassinated on TV.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

Unlike Stannis, I believe Jaime's been a bit whitewashed in the show. Except for scenes like Alton's murder and Cersei's rape, Jaime is much more likeable than in the books to me. He seems genuinely concerned about Brienne and doesn't treat her like shit all the time. He loses his hand trying to save her and doesn't appear to be really trying to kill Brienne in their duel. It's a bigger bromance in the show and he has more respect for her. That's why I think they will easily salvage Jaime this season yet. I really doubt it that people will still hate him after he sends Brienne to rescure Sansa, defends Tyrion in his trial, helps him escape and shits on his own reputation when writing the White Book. People will look back and see his last scene with Cersei as a relapse he quickly recovered from.

Stannis, on the other hand, will take some more time until he becomes more likeable to the non-readers, most likely by season 5 only. The only things about him that were whitewashed were his love for his daughter and his bravery in battle, while the rest of his positive qualities were omitted. Remember that there wouldn't be a "Stannis the Mannis" in the first place if he hadn't personally climbed the walls of King's Landing, but it's been a while since that happened, so they would have to do more to his character to make him likeable again. Maybe we will see him slaying a giant by himself?

[Gneisenau]

Alton's murder and Cersei's rape pretty much blackwash any whitewashing Jaime got.

[Van West]

Unlike Stannis, I believe Jaime's been a bit whitewashed in the show. Except for scenes like Alton's murder and Cersei's rape, Jaime is much more likeable than in the books to me. He seems genuinely concerned about Brienne and doesn't treat her like shit all the time. He loses his hand trying to save her and doesn't appear to be really trying to kill Brienne in their duel. It's a bigger bromance in the show and he has more respect for her. That's why I think they will easily salvage Jaime this season yet. I really doubt it that people will still hate him after he sends Brienne to rescure Sansa, defends Tyrion in his trial, helps him escape and shits on his own reputation when writing the White Book. People will look back and see his last scene with Cersei as a relapse he quickly recovered from.

Stannis, on the other hand, will take some more time until he becomes more likeable to the non-readers, most likely by season 5 only. The only things about him that were whitewashed were his love for his daughter and his bravery in battle, while the rest of his positive qualities were omitted. Remember that there wouldn't be a "Stannis the Mannis" in the first place if he hadn't personally climbed the walls of King's Landing, but it's been a while since that happened, so they would have to do more to his character to make him likeable again. Maybe we will see him slaying a giant by himself?

People are even less forgiving of rape than attempted child-murder.

At least his attempted murder could be justified.

Raping Cersei can't.

Also whatever trust people had for Jaime vanished. Now people can't be sure it's not going to be another fake out before he rapes someone else.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

Alton's murder and Cersei's rape pretty much blackwash any whitewashing Jaime got.

Really? You must despise him because he pushed Bran out of the tower and started an entire war because of his children with Cersei. All those things are what makes a grey character. To some people apparently there's no middle ground between good and evil.

People are even less forgiving of rape than attempted child-murder.

At least his attempted murder could be justified.

Raping Cersei can't.

Also whatever trust people had for Jaime vanished. Now people can't be sure it's not going to be another fake out before he rapes someone else.

Are they? Do people have more sympathy for Bran of for Cersei? Most of the reactions I've seen are of people being disappointed by Jaime's action after warming up to him, not for Cersei being his victim. They don't have a shred of sympathy for her. But very well, if you want to declare character assassination, I'll leave you to it. Some people apparently have a lot of fun overreacting it almost sounds like a circlejerk.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

why the fuck is there a Jaime and Rape discussion here

[Hellothere]

I am sick of the way they portray Stannis, I wish they would just spend more time on him and fill him in a little more one way or the other.

At the moment I am sat there watching it with my non-reader husband babbling about his motivations. If they would just make him more evil or show more good I could at least tell where the show are going with the character.

[Konradsmith]

Why indeed SnowOther.

[aFeastForDragons]

Widows_Blood, on 21 Apr 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Can't wait for people to get upset when he threatens to kill Jon as some sort of character assassination.

He does threaten to kill Jon and the rest of the Night's Watch. Its a light hearted threat but it is a threat.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Widows_Blood, on 21 Apr 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

He does threaten to kill Jon and the rest of the Night's Watch. Its a light hearted threat but it is a threat.

There isnt even anything wrong with that really. even if he means it(which he probably does) Stannis Would rip the NW to shreds if he had to.

[Bronn Urgandy]

Will they show the idiocity of the NW though? "Oooh but traditions mean we can dawdle for years! Oooh our but Castles you cant garrison them leave them empty! Oooh scum Wildlings" vs Stannis' "sort yourselves out! The WW are coming!"

Or will they pretend the NW are the brainy bunch while Stannis goes "Gimme what I want before I gut yer!"

As I've said before, genuinely afraid they'll make him a Slynt supporter.

[The Onion Sleight]

About the IBoB:

It would be even better, if the IB wanted him to attack King's Landing, and that's the reason why he rejects.

I think he will tell the IB the attack to King's Landing will happen... then the audience will be surprised when he will show up in the wall...

That was my last post about this, in the other "A Balanced Review about Show Stannis (4.02)" thread:

(copied to here)

I always throught they would create ambiguilty by showing the Iron Bank rejects Stannis' and Davos' request for a loan (because Tywin's still alive, the Crown's still paying their debts) and we would leave them in Ep. 6 or 7 with a scene of "We haven't enough people to help, we're would risk an immense default and maybe losing our last remaining men." and then the Unsullied wouldn't know if they're giving up their idea (no gold -> no sellswords and soldiers -> very small army compared to Mance's; the threat of the Others is in the background, other fights seem more important) or not...

But now, I'm thinking, that we'll maybe see the IBoB more keen of Stannis and his cause and they'll maybe extends a warmer welcome to him than everybody’d assume, because of all this talking about the Crown's problems with the Bank, Tywin's and Olenna's chat last episode and that they'll maybe refuse their paying earlier than expected.
Then the IBoB would be more pro-Stan much earlier than in the books and it'd be interesting to see how that would effect him and his fate.

(Even in the books yet, we don't really know how the bank's support will effect the TWOW events and what will really happen after the Theon sample). That'd create an "Iron Bank propostions him to attack KL again" situation (I tkink they'd be more supportive of this idea than the Wall idea) and a better scenario.

Not only, because we'd have the ambiguilty, too - the Unsullied might see him thoughtful, struggling / doubtful, conflicted because of "Trying to win the throne to save the kingdom vs. Trying to save the kingdom to win the throne" (the ultimate fitting situation!, as I said before), and not only because of military weakness / less gold, men... .
What do you think? Will they (Tycho & Co.) just say "Nah, sorry, we still have the Crown, we won't support you" or could it be that they'll more "Well, the Crown is not willing to pay, so we turn to you... Hey, do you still want to take the city?..."? (Even with their money for sellswords & stuff, it'd still be a very risky attack, for the NW would come very help too late, he wouldn't become "the King who still cares", aso... So going to the Wall would be the best decision, but people'd have to wait to Ep. 9 to see the result of his decision ;-)

Another small question, btw: Do you think Davos will go together with the others to Castle Black before his Manderly-mission?
I know it's actually a pretty unnecessary detour sailing to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, then riding to Castle Black, then (in Season 5) riding back to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea and travelling to White Habor (with an unplanned stopover at Sweet Sister), but I could imagine this change on show (I mean, if Stannis has this idea with White Habor later than in the books?).
Because I'd love to see Stan giving this mission to Davos on-screen and maybe a Davos / Jon meeting :)

I absolutely agree with this, every word of that:

The IB scene is so important. Stannis as a begger king is absolute bullshit and in no way his character. If they have him roll into Bravos, treat with Tycho in a manner of "Please help me I deserve it" then I'll be convinced D and D are ruining him. Dont see it happening, but who knows.

His image will be greatly rebuilt during and after Episode 9. Pretty excited for Stan, Jon and Mel. Just hang in there.

[Koi No Yokan]

Oh man, I'd love to see Davos and Jon interact. I still hope they cross paths eventually in the books, but I'd be very happy if they could sneak it in on the show somehow.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

shows none of his dry wit.

The "pantry" line was pure classic sardonic Stannis

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Oh man, I'd love to see Davos and Jon interact. I still hope they cross paths eventually in the books, but I'd be very happy if they could sneak it in on the show somehow.

Who is going to support Dillanes scenes while he marches on WinterFell? Stannis needs a buddie to do the scenes....at best Asha is supposed to be a prisoner.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Who is going to support Dillanes scenes while he marches on Winter Fell? Stannis needs a buddie to do the scenes....at best Asha is supposed to be a prisoner.

I guess they could flesh out Justin Massey.