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[Show and Book Spoilers] A Balanced review of Stannis.

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That would be awesome, wouldn't it? :D I love Massey (Don't fail in Braavos, Justin, or else :whip:!). If he would appear on the show, his hair tick has to appear, too! He shouldn't distract attention away from Stannis, but maybe they could cast Richard Horpe, too and give them both, Massey and Horpe, buddy-bitchfight-rivalries :box: (y'know, to make a Death March through a fucking blizzard funnier).

I would find this trio humorous, it wouldn't been this heavy "Angel & Devil whispering in the king's right & left ear", much more "The awesome Mannis and his two different, barmy sidekick knights, courting for His Grace's attention".

I'd honestly watch an entire show of just the Awesome and Hilarious Adventures of Stannis, Justin and Richard.

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I disagree that stannis has been butchered completely, although the series has definitly made some missteps (mostly in season 3).

take a look at this:


this really shows the stannis that I loved in the book.

"Robert told me to hold storms end so I held it, then he told me he was giving it to Renly, so I gave it up, insult or not I gave it up, because Robert was my older brother and he was the king and I've always done my duty, but now I'm the rightful king by every law of westeros and when I sit the iron throne you'll be my hand."

this is stannis, the man that holds duty and justice in such high regard, and the man who cares little about a mans blood.

season 3 definitly did things wrong, mostly during the sacrificing.

But so far I've liked him in season 4, during the burning scene he looked disgusted to me (a stark contrast to his wife's enthusiasm) .

the problem as I see it is Mellisandre, because he seems a far better character in scenes that don't involve her.

The casting of stannis was flawless (like most GoT castings), Dillane is almost exactly how I pictured stannis in my head and his acting is great.

:agree: absolutely with you about the Season 2 Stannis, this scene (wonderful! :wub: ), the mistakes in season 3, Stephen Dillane , a.s.o...

and I agree especially with you about Melisandre. She's still (IMO) Show!Stannis' biggest problem:

It's not Mel herself, it's definitely not Carice; it's their relationship and -When I think about my show-watching mother and sister- the fact, that many people believe Mel's the evil incarnate.

My sister (who is a total Unsullied, but knows that I'm a absolute StanStan) said once: "I really don't hate Stannis. I absolutely hate the Fire Bitch" (My mother and sister always call her "Fire Bitch"). Oh, and she really hates my constant laments about "character assassination / butchery", I understand this, espically when we watch together a new episode, during this I must be very annoying...

My mother (who's also an Unsullied, but allows me to spoiler her everything I want. And "Spoiler" is my second name B) ) thinks, once all that awesome Stannis "The King who cares" Baratheon in the North stuff happens, she will warm up to him (I've already spoilered her the all storylines till the TWOW Theon sample chapter). I've told her also more about the Mel / Stannis and Mel / Jon relationships in the future and in her opinion, when he marches without Mel through the North, then she'll definitely warm up to him.

Both think, if he would get rid of her, they would like him much more... Both think at the moment he's absolutely under her influence... Both think it's more Mel's story than Stannis' (Okay, my mother luckily knows the truth now)... Both think Mel's evil. Really evil. Because their biggest problem with her is actually: They want to know, what exactly Mel wants from Stannis; why does she think he's AAR?; what does this mean: Does she REALLY believes this? Or does she -their opinion so far- pretends this, because she wants to exploit him for her -for us unknown- purposes? And since she's evil (or at least her actions so far are evil) = evil purposes.

I have to admit: Before her own POV, nobody really knew the truth about Mel's belief in Stannis being AAR, and her POV definitely changed opinions about her.

Sometimes for the worse ("She always fails with her prophecies", "Her thinking is narrow-minded and naive", "There's no mysterious, cool, plan behind her belief in Stannis, she backed the wrong person the whole time", "She knows she's actually somehow wrong, but won't give up her opinion about AAR, how dumb"),

sometimes for the better ("It's good that there's no evil plan behind her belief, her intentions are really good", "She never pretended to believe something, she wouldn't believe", "I can understand how she holds on her faith / opinion / Stannis and doesn't won't to admit her mistakes and that she was wrong the whole time, that's somehow human, human failure".)

For me, it was the second case.

On the show, Stannis and Mel are a duo, they nearly always appear together (since season 3) or if one of them alone, it's mostly Mel.

Even if D&D want to ruin Stannis' coming arc in the North, one thing they can't change (Yes, I'm sure it's impossible. Even for them) is the fact, that Stannis and Mel will part company at a moment on the show, they'll go separate ways (Now we could argue about how much “separate ways”, but let’s say for a moment for both definitely physically separated).

And, IMO, that will be fucking good for both of them! It will help them much and it will help their portrayals.

The whole Team Dragonstone (Stannis, Davos and Mel) is at different places later, they all have their own storylines, they all interact with different main (or big secondary) characters. Everyone of them is involved in the great, wonderful, important North arc, everyone with her / his own, different involvement. ("Stannis is Mel's bitch" WILL stop!)

When show watchers now don’t care about S, D and M, they can’t avoid caring later for them (I hope it). They won’t no longer sitting in Dragonstone, having no contact to other main characters, being “irrelevant”; they become extreme important, they’ll meet a bunch of characters, who the watchers love / hate or will love / hate, they’re at the Wall (one of the most important places in Asoiaf / GoT), White Harbour (a cool new location for the Unsullied) or marching to Winterfell (is there one person who doesn’t care about what happens to Winterfell? One of THESE centre places since season 1).

And whether you love or hate Jon, and whether you love or hate Jon on the show, I think he will help Stannis and Mel very, very much!

Nobody can deny that the show loves one-on-one dialogues (that’s one of the many reasons why they give King’s Landing so much –unnecessary- screen time) and I could imagine season 5 having many Jon/Stannis and Jon/Mel dialogues. I hope (and think) they will benefit them.

Jon’s one of the most loved main characters (one of my mother’s and sister’s favourites, too) and the show should use the potential of his relationships with these characters.

Jon e.g. spends more than one book with trying to NOT root for Stannis, but then roots more and more for him and accepts more and more at the end, that he’s quasi in Team Stannis.

Jon’s struggle with his / the NW’s neutrality and how the avoids to back and support Stannis too much, but does it evermore, is one of his most important aspects in his ADWD’s / LC’s arc. Jon lovers should see and understand it.

I also hope they’ll see that Stannis and Jon are a good team, their mutual respect, that they’re similar in many points, that these are the guys who really think and care about the North’s situation, the Wildlings, Boltons, the Others (when the most people don’t give a shit about this), things like the Stannisnod, Jon’s tip about Deepwood and the Mountain Clans, he warns Stannis about the Karstark’s treachery, Stannis saves their all lifes, offers him Winterfell, promises to bring Arya to Jon (if he can), how they handle the situation with the Wildlings, … (you all know what I mean).

And about Mel: I guess, the most Unsullied will be shocked when they see her staying with Jon at the Wall and they will worry about him, when they’ll see Mel courting for Jon’s trust and friendship, but maybe they’ll wonder, what’s really the deal with Mel and see that it hasn’t to do with Stannis, it has to do with AAR.

When Stannis leaves her behind and has later an army with R’hllor-, The Seven-, The Old God- (and one Drowned God)-worshippers, but she’s not with him, the religious thing has nothing to do with her influence, but with his queen’s men (The battle is still dependent on his men, his supporters, but not on Mel) and then finally the Unsullied should see the pragmatic atheist (Okay, I could imagine the show would doing something so dumb like making him to burn innocents instead of cannibals. But making him to trying to burn a Northman and explain this dumb behaviour to watchers would be too difficult for D&D, I hope).

They will (and should) show the burning of "Mance", positively, and how the Wildlings should burn Weirwood tree brunches, certainly, but hopefully we won’t see Mel running through Castle Black and trying to burn / proselytize everyone.

They should use her at his time to explain more about the AAR prophecy and the Great Other and the Others and her growing interest in Jon, but also how she misinterprets what she sees and her mistakes. That she's an ultimate "The end justifies the means" or "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" character, no villain, but also definitely no good person; which won't bring her much sympathy, but maybe at least maybe more understanding.

Okay, and want should I say about Davos? IMO it’s impossible to NOT love him and I can’t believe that people exist who didn’t enjoy his ADWD arc (do they exist?). Manderly + Freys + Davos is a badass + Fake Death + sad letters + “The North remembers” + Rickon + Skagos + aso (I’m sure they’ll cut Lord Borrell and Sweet Sister)... You have to love the Onion Knight and his storyline.

So, briefly speaking: Every Dragonstone character should benefit from having their own storyline in the future.

Don't get me wrong: I absolutely love them together! There’s no team I found more interesting and better in ASOIAF than these three. Their dynamic and relationships to each other are by far the best and most fascinating for me (whether it’s Stannis/Davos or Stannis/Mel or Mel/Davos or of course Stannis/Davos/Mel), but on the show the separation will do them good, and since we’re here to talk about Stannis, I want to emphasize, ESPECIALLY Stannis!

People should see him making decisions alone (but still listening to good advice), being the awesome leader who leads his host through a blizzard, becoming one of the most important persons, whose fate will also decide the fate of the North, aso.

And no matter how much the show wants to screw him up or ruin his story – they can’t ruin it totally and can't delete the important part he’s going to play!

(They can lesser it, yes, and knowing the show they will, and probably my hopes are shit and they’ll even manage to make his march to Winterfell looking like something bad)… But at the moment I’m hopeful :-)

I don’t know why (maybe because of my many ADWD Jon / Davos / Theon / Asha / Mel rereads over the last time)… Or maybe I’m just today in a super special hopeful phase.

(or maybe it's the fact that it's here 2 a.m. and I'm tired... so sorry for grammar / spelling.)

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