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[Book Spoilers] Wildling raiding


C.T. Phipps

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I think that's right - the Thenns were from farther away (and actually, they also weren't cannibals - some other wildlings were, plus the Skagosi). The Thenns had a more Westerosi-style way of life - lords, armor, etc. But I guess I still think that TV-Starks and TV-Southerners would be more worried about TV-Thenns eating them...

I don't think TV Thenns have really been south of the wall either, Styr talks about the people tasting better in the south like its something new to him

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The cannibal angle is extremely cheesy. I also dislike how this might change the Stannis-Jon wilding integration policy. I mean, who wants cannibals south of the Wall, let alone marrying the potential heir to Karhold.



Other than that, this raid was pretty well done, minus the fact it looks like they are in the south during spring.


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The cannibal angle is extremely cheesy. I also dislike how this might change the Stannis-Jon wilding integration policy. I mean, who wants cannibals south of the Wall, let alone marrying the potential heir to Karhold.

Other than that, this raid was pretty well done, minus the fact it looks like they are in the south during spring.

It's only the Thenns, don't let them through..boom done. Alys storyline won't happen.

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I didn't like it. The wildlings can be cruel and brutal, but they have a purpose. They should not be depicted as people who enjoy killing for the sake of it.

I kinda agree with this. Yes, it's a raid, it's supposed to be violent, but Jon staying with them was supposed to show us that they and the Watch are in danger of the same thing: the Others. Many Unsullied don't get that vibe.

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TV wildlings are portrayed as somewhat total dorks. They dont know how many garrisons the watch maintains, nor many black brothers defend it. In the books, they are planning the invasion, in the show its "lets move south and try" thing.


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It's only the Thenns, don't let them through..boom done. Alys storyline won't happen.

But what made the Wildlings interesting imo was the fact that they had diverse groups, like the Thenns who stood out as more like people 'south of the wall'.

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But what made the Wildlings interesting imo was the fact that they had diverse groups, like the Thenns who stood out as more like people 'south of the wall'.

Yeah but them being cannibals is a bit too diverse..nobody would believe the NW would just welcome them through.

A lot of this stuff is catering to the show only people..Thenn's have been changed to show that the wildings aren't all the same and break down the goodwill Tormund etc. have earned for them.

Not letting other Thenns through the Wall later won't make much difference to the story at the end of the day.

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Once again, total contradiction from the book. He send the magnar because Styr is organized and commands with total loyalty. He's not a singleminded bloody cannibal.

Again, it's necessary to demonstrate to the show people that they're not all benevolent, noble savages like Tormund.

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Again, it's necessary to demonstrate to the show people that they're not all benevolent, noble savages like Tormund.

Honestly, I think GRRM has for the most part portrayed wildlings as 'noble savages'. If D&D left alone the cannibal angle, the Wildlings would remain 'grey' in my opinion.

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Honestly, I think GRRM has for the most part portrayed wildlings as 'noble savages'. If D&D left alone the cannibal angle, the Wildlings would remain 'grey' in my opinion.

I think need to break down a bit of the goodwill the wildlings have earned or when the NW and Stannis smash them the show people will just cry 'Why did they do that they could have co-operated' etc.

I've seen it on other forums with people saying that the NW should team up with them but it's only really after their back is broken and Mance is taken that the wildlings are willing to listen and compromise. Even then the Watch still takes hostages just to be sure.

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See, I get that they want to demonstrate that they aren't all noble savages - however, they could do this by not changing the Thenns in such a way. Imagine, instead, you have Tormund say 'I fuck hate Thenns' and marching from the North (or South, whichever) come what look like southern knights, almost. Except their armour is forged entirely out of bronze with fur and hide accents, and their helms are shaped to more resemble monstrous faces than regular helms. They march in perfect lockstep and make the bedraggled Wildlings with Tormund and Ygritte look like barbarians in comparison.



Styr is at the head of this formation, sneers at Tormund and says something along the lines of 'And here I thought you could handle a few weakling kneelers, Tall-Talker.'



Cut to the raid - you have the Wildlings attacking first, savage and wild and the villagers rushing to try and flee - right into the force of Thenns who is marching from the other direction and are just cutting the villagers down. Not all wild and barbaric like the other Wildlings but cold, almost mechanical. Styr still finds the boy, hoists him up and stares into his face and says 'Run to Castle Black - let the Crows know the Magnar of Thenn comes to pluck their feathers.'



Same impact, but you have a force that is frightening in the sense that they aren't going to 'give in' like the other Wildlings. They are uniformed, disciplined, and a terror for the Night's Watch because... well - the other Wildlings might break without a single when they think they're going to lose, or are going to attack like, well, barbarians. But then you have the Thenns who are formed in disciplined ranks and act and fight like southern soldiers - something the Night's Watch isn't used to fighting.



That's why, in the books, the Thenns seem to be frightening for the Night's Watch. With the other Wildlings you can get them to break and deal with them easier because they fight like barbarians. The Thenns you have to actually combat as if you were in a real war.



This shows the diversity rather well, it shows the Thenns as this force that is unquestioningly dedicated to their cause - but isn't going in for wholesale slaughter and bloodlust. It's a bit more interesting than what they are now, which is sort of these generic, savage, barbarians.


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I think need to break down a bit of the goodwill the wildlings have earned or when the NW and Stannis smash them the show people will just cry 'Why did they do that they could have co-operated' etc.

I've seen it on other forums with people saying that the NW should team up with them but it's only really after their back is broken and Mance is taken that the wildlings are willing to listen and compromise. Even then the Watch still takes hostages just to be sure.

I can understand that I suppose. I think D&D will have a problem demonstrating just how uncooperative the Wildlings are. Hell, in a first read of aDwD, I thought the Wildlings could turn on the Night's Watch at any moment. I think the Unsullied will be quite ignorant of this until D&D show how broken the Wildlings had to be before they bent the knee.

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Shouldnt it look colder by now? Shouldnt there be some snow at the least? Winter is coming. Even in the North near the dreadfort last week, we saw nothing but what looked like a healthy forest in the summer time.

Yeah, it has been pointed out by quite a few of us that it looks a little odd. I'm willing to forgive the producers though because when you're doing shooting scenes in that kind of environment, especially when you're using real castles as your set, it's difficult to balance CGI/fake snow with realism.

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I appreciated the programme showing them as dangerous and cruel. I was actually kinda of shocked when I saw Ygritte was the one that had let that arrow - then of course I remembered she's not just a girl who has so far been feisty but also sweet and tender and in love; she is a warrior who kills people.



Jon's decision to allow the wildlings to pass the Wall was very controversial. No one will understand Bowen Marsh's concerns if all we see is Tormund and Ygritte being chummy. Viewers will not understand how controversial Jon's decision was and how desperate they all were against the Others.



One more thing about the cannibals: there were cannibal tribes in the book and Jon let them pass. I do not remember him saying 'oh everyone can come except for the cannibal river tribes'. So he did accept cannibals. He populated the south of the Wall with (some) cannibals. Here they just decided to make cannibalism more prominent.


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Here's my take. On one hand this scene will make the wildlings a little less sympathetic in the future, but as others point out they did raids like this in the book, just off page. On the other hand making the wildings look like such savages and real threats to the wall/Westeros could make Stannis look like more of hero when he crushes the wildlings. Stannis needs a serious makeover in the show so I don't really have a problem with this tradeoff.


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LOL. How do you guys imagine wildling raids usually go? Why do you think the North despises them? It's not just blind prejudice. They're savages, and I'm glad the show didn't shy away from that



"HBO had the gall to accurately depict a wildling raid! The must be trying to demonize them!"







Tormund and the Thenns are suposed to become reliable allies of the Watch. They shouldn't risk making it seem that the White Walkers are a lesser evil.





Obviously they're not going that route with the Thenns. That tribe is depicted as sadistic cannibals now, obvious villains who even creep out other Wildlings. Which is fine - the Thenns aren't an important part of the story.


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Jon's decision to allow the wildlings to pass the Wall was very controversial. No one will understand Bowen Marsh's concerns if all we see is Tormund and Ygritte being chummy. Viewers will not understand how controversial Jon's decision was and how desperate they all were against the Others.

^This nails it on the head.

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