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Tommen and Tywin (book spoilers)


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First, how old is this new Tommen supposed to be? He doesn't know about sex, apparently, that's what? 11? 12? I guess Joffrey was meant to be... 16?

He's like three years younger than Sansa in the books, so it would be 11, or maybe 12 if Sansa has already turned 15 off-screen. Am I the only one who thinks the actor doesn't look 15/16? He looks barely 13 to me.

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He's like three years younger than Sansa in the books, so it would be 11, or maybe 12 if Sansa has already turned 15 off-screen. Am I the only one who thinks the actor doesn't look 15/16? He looks barely 13 to me.

Probably. Myrcella is older and she has been sent away to marry. In books she's just making time and she's what, nine? ten? They won't make it THAT creepy, so, she probably is fourteen. Tommen should be 13 or 12.

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That scene absolutely kicked ass.



I feel like Tywin could have made Tommen into a great king. He always was a successful hand, he just needed someone that he could control better.



Also kinda weird thinking about how Jaime has been the father to two Kings, yet has never been King himself. Doesn't happen much.


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I always try to remember that in the books, Tommen was said to be the same exact age as Bran. So - aged up in the show, that does make sense since Bran looks a LOT older this season (that boy hit puberty fast!). I'm guessing both are supposed to be about 14 now in the show and that's certainly old enough to know the "birds and the bees" but I don't think Tywin really cared whether or not Tommen actually knew - he was doing most of that entire speech for Cersei's benefit not Tommen's. He already knows Tommen is completely pliable. He needed to show Cersei that he was taking over. And it worked. The looks she gave sideways at Tommen were perfect.


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Loved this conversation. Yes, it was a little long. However, I think that was necessary. It gave time for Cersei time (peripheral to the conversation) to absorb just what Tywin was doing in that moment. They showed her internal strife, seeing just how helpless she is to stop her father from effectively appropriating the only child she has left. She is reminded of the way she is viewed, as a brood mare whose first stallion was put down for losing the Derby, only to have her youngest colt introduced to his new jocky in front of her.



Question, though... Who was this "King Orys the First" who Tywin spoke of to Tommen? Killed by his brother early in his reign? I initially thought, maybe, Orys Baratheon- but he was never king. Then I thought it was a mispronunciation of "Aerys", but none of them were victims of fratricide. Maybe it was a pre-Targ king?


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Loved this conversation. Yes, it was a little long. However, I think that was necessary. It gave time for Cersei time (peripheral to the conversation) to absorb just what Tywin was doing in that moment. They showed her internal strife, seeing just how helpless she is to stop her father from effectively appropriating the only child she has left. She is reminded of the way she is viewed, as a brood mare whose first stallion was put down for losing the Derby, only to have her youngest colt introduced to his new jocky in front of her.

Question, though... Who was this "King Orys the First" who Tywin spoke of to Tommen? Killed by his brother early in his reign? I initially thought, maybe, Orys Baratheon- but he was never king. Then I thought it was a mispronunciation of "Aerys", but none of them were victims of fratricide. Maybe it was a pre-Targ king?

As said elsewhere, they probably meant Aenys Targ but didn't want to say that name. Could be Maekar ended up being suspected to kill both his brothers tho.

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This was certainly a good deviation.


We see hear more of the previous kings and how they were unsuccessful, and it established Tommen's character, and Tywin's way of manipulating him was well depicted.



One question: Was Orys killed by his brother? There wasn't anything like that in the books, and the Wiki doesn't cover it either.


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Loved this conversation. Yes, it was a little long. However, I think that was necessary. It gave time for Cersei time (peripheral to the conversation) to absorb just what Tywin was doing in that moment. They showed her internal strife, seeing just how helpless she is to stop her father from effectively appropriating the only child she has left. She is reminded of the way she is viewed, as a brood mare whose first stallion was put down for losing the Derby, only to have her youngest colt introduced to his new jocky in front of her.

Question, though... Who was this "King Orys the First" who Tywin spoke of to Tommen? Killed by his brother early in his reign? I initially thought, maybe, Orys Baratheon- but he was never king. Then I thought it was a mispronunciation of "Aerys", but none of them were victims of fratricide. Maybe it was a pre-Targ king?

Nah, I watched with subtitles, it's definitely Orys.

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First, how old is this new Tommen supposed to be? He doesn't know about sex, apparently, that's what? 11? 12? I guess Joffrey was meant to be... 16?

Yeah, I thought it weird that Tommen is aged up but had no idea about sex. But that was probably done to show he's really innocent rather than young.

I think Joffrey was around 16, I'd put Tommen at 12 with Myrcella at 14.

Though Tommen looked much older, like 14 at least.

Also, Littlefinger said Joffrey tormented Sansa "for years". That made no sense.

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I really liked this scene. The most interesting sentence I found was:



"A house with great wealth and fertile lands asks you for your protection against another house with a strong navy that could one day oppose you."



Is this a foreshadowing of the future Ironborn attack on the Reach?


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I really liked this scene. The most interesting sentence I found was:

"A house with great wealth and fertile lands asks you for your protection against another house with a strong navy that could one day oppose you."

Is this a foreshadowing of the future Ironborn attack on the Reach?

Yeah I thought the exact same thing. I think it's also foreshadowing to Cersei's horrible small council.

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