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[spoilers] Nitpicking with impunity


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That person was terrifying! But yeah, you see someone rinsing...whatever it is out just before Sam and Gilly check out her new digs: http://i.imgur.com/bOOjzIN.png?1?9106

~shudders~ Yes, and I see you are using the word 'person,' too. Are you as confused as I am on exactly how to try and classify said 'person?'

And, thank you for the pic.

ETA: How the heck did I miss that? Oh, I was too busy being creeped out, that's how, LOL

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~shudders~ Yes, and I see you are using the word 'person,' too. Are you as confused as I am on exactly how to try and classify said 'person?'

And, thank you for the pic.

ETA: How the heck did I miss that? Oh, I was too busy being creeped out, that's how, LOL

Yeah...I was going to go with gender-neutral pronouns and not jump to conclusions one way or another. Others that I've talked to about this had the same confusion.

EDIT: The IMDB full cast list didn't include any Mole's Town characters, from what I could tell, so looks like we may not get clarity.

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Dany when she was standing out in the open, unprotected. They were going for something like her earlier scene where she sacked Astapor but in here, a lot of her enemies had a bird's eye view of her and could've easily launched an arrow attack.

I believe the show did a decent job of showing that Dany and company were just out of arrow range. Remember the barrage of arrows Mereen launched after Darrio killed their champion. They all fell short a few feet in front of them.

Of course, that clearly undercuts Mereen being able to hear Dany's speech. Realistically, as Dany was talking, everyone in Mereen should've been like, "huh?!, what?!" (ala "Kung Fu Panda 2"). But that wouldn't have played well so the show runners just played it off like everyone in Mereen could hear her.

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^ Also, I don't think you can catapult things further that you can shoot an arrow with a bow.

Especially since the barrels go UP a wall, while the arrows are shot DOWN...

I'm not sure of the mechanism behind a catapult but it is a bigger, heavier, machine than a single-man pulling a bowstring. It doesn't seem inconceivable to me that it would have greater range than an arrow fired from a bow.

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Yeah...I was going to go with gender-neutral pronouns and not jump to conclusions one way or another. Others that I've talked to about this had the same confusion.

EDIT: The IMDB full cast list didn't include any Mole's Town characters, from what I could tell, so looks like we may not get clarity.

I see you went with the practical approach. At first I thought the person was a woman, but something about the voice made me second guess, and the creepier the scene became, the more confused I was. Then I had the thought, wait a minute.......reminds me of a former guitar playing boyfriend, minus the creep factor, LOL It's a hard call.

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Catapults could be expected to have a range of 400m and the best Welsh Bowmen with yew longbows could reach 350m at maximum range. Both of these are on the flat though and as others have said, the defenders have height advantage.



Other points to note are that in the scene, the catapults used may not be the type that could reach 400m and the bows used are highly unlikely to be able to reach 350m - even 250 would be a stretch.



What is more unlikely is that the defenders would be able to hear Dany's voice over that range.


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Catapults could be expected to have a range of 400m and the best Welsh Bowmen with yew longbows could reach 350m at maximum range. Both of these are on the flat though and as others have said, the defenders have height advantage.

Other points to note are that in the scene, the catapults used may not be the type that could reach 400m and the bows used are highly unlikely to be able to reach 350m - even 250 would be a stretch.

What is more unlikely is that the defenders would be able to hear Dany's voice over that range.

Well it also depends on what has been catapulted. A 10 pound rock would fly two times further that a 30 pound rock (source). Never mind a wobbly bundle.

Never the less, it could have been more possible than I thought. Thanks for the answer :)

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I'm sure it's been mentioned before but I also thought the escape scene with Sansa running through the alleys intertwined with shots of Cersei screaming, about being a bitch or something, was pretty terrible. It felt rushed and more like shots for a "previously on Game of Thrones....' recap. It gave the opening a really cheap cable vibe.


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Wooden barrels of the size they were flinging would be closer to 100 pounds than 10, and that's not even factoring in the weight of the chains. Based on the trajectory (some were still ascending as they flew over the site of the archers), if their flight hadn't been interrupted then many (if not all) of them would have travelled more than twice the distance of the arrows (you lose much more distance launching low-to-high than you gain going high-to-low, btw).



At any rate, dem some dam strong catterpolts...


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I'm sure it's been mentioned before but I also thought the escape scene with Sansa running through the alleys intertwined with shots of Cersei screaming, about being a bitch or something, was pretty terrible. It felt rushed and more like shots for a "previously on Game of Thrones....' recap. It gave the opening a really cheap cable vibe.

The first few minutes of the episode were really quite awful. First you've got Cersei, who immediately went from 'grief' to 'anger' to 'contemplative detective' (My son is dead... You did this! Where is Sansa?).

Then you've got the awkward 'power shot' of Tywin demanding the city gates be closed (whoopsie, guess we forgot to grab that while the extras were on set...).

Followed, of course, by the least dramatic 'dramatic escape' in the history of History.

On the bright side, that left plenty of extra time for pointless nudity in a brothel...

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Then you've got the awkward 'power shot' of Tywin demanding the city gates be closed (whoopsie, guess we forgot to grab that while the extras were on set...).

No kidding, what was with the angle on this shot? Lord Tywin, you sly devil, your nose hairs look so menacing!

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No kidding, what was with the angle on this shot? Lord Tywin, you sly devil, your nose hairs look so menacing!

It looked like a soap opera directing

Also, I rewatched Dany's speech, and how could they possibly be listening to her? It looks ridiculous. Add that Emilia's try hard acting.

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Konrad,

I couldn't possibly say...

:hat:

Huehuehue.

It looked like a soap opera directing

Also, I rewatched Dany's speech, and how could they possibly be listening to her? It looks ridiculous. Add that Emilia's try hard acting.

At least Clarke is trying this season. The past two seasons have been shit with Season 2 being the worst turd in terms of her acting.

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At least Clarke is trying this season. The past two seasons have been shit with Season 2 being the worst turd in terms of her acting.

For me Clarke hit it out the park in S3E4.

Dracarys was the best episode for me for S3, liked it better than the RW.

It even improved on GRRM's sequence on the page.

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For me Clarke hit it out the park in S3E4.

Dracarys was the best episode for me for S3, liked it better than the RW.

It even improved on GRRM's sequence on the page.

I preferred the book version

But the dracarys scene and the RW was pretty much the only things that were interesting in season 3

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I'm absolutely sure I'm not the first person to complain about the rape scene. But since it's the "nitpicking with impunity thread", I'm going to do it anyway.



Now, just to get this out of the way first, I do find the sept scene in the books problematic. Jaime ignores Cersei's initial protests, so stricken with desire is he, which even though Cersei does consent to the sex after her initial reaction, does reflect a problematic attitude towards consent (ignore the person saying no, just keep going until they admit they do want you after all, when a person's "No" should always be taken seriously, regardless of the reasoning). Had the director/ writers/ showrunners come out and stated "Well, we found that the scene in the books was pretty ambiguously consensual, and we felt that that gave off a troubling message, so we decided to remove that and actually show that no, this is a dark scene and what Jaime is doing is wrong". That would be, I think, fair enough. But they didn't. They see the scene as it appeared in the books- two people who want each other, but one of them is worried about discovery. The sex is consensual- or at least, becomes that way by the end. And that HAS to inform how the characters act going ahead. Not to mention, this scene isn't like the books:



- Unlike the books, where, once Cersei DOES give her consent, it is verbal and enthusiastic, there is no point in the scene where Cersei is saying anything other than "No" "Stop" or "This isn't right". There is NEVER a point where that changes. Yes, she kisses him back, but we know they are/ were attracted to each other, and that they were in a relationship. In real life, people in relationships are raped and sexually assaulted. They are raped and sexually assaulted by people that they might find attractive. If the notion was that it was be definitely consensual by the end, then why have her continually voice her objections? Why not actually include the line out of the book? It would still be a problematic scene- see above- but the notion that a person sobbing and asking their attacker to stop is consenting on any level beggars belief.



- The whole scene in the books takes place when Jaime and Cersei first meet. Jaime in the books is motivated by desire for Cersei, to be with his lover again. In the show, Jaime has been back for weeks. Cersei has rebuffed his advances during this time- more than once. Jaime in the show is motivated by anger. Anger at Cersei. Anger at Cersei for rejecting him. I've seen comments from viewers/ readers about Cersei deserving it because she's a bad person, and I have to point out a) Ew. Sexualised punishments, not cool. I don't get people framing Theon's castration as something he "deserved", either. and B) Cersei is being "punished" by Jaime because she rejects him. Not because she killed Lady, or arrested Ned, or let Joffrey run wild, or for laughing at the Red Wedding, or even for wanting Tyrion killed without trial. But for the oh-so-horrendous crime of not wanting to fuck Jaime. People are not entitled to sex, or a relationship, and they are certainly not entitled to force someone into it until they give in.



The problem is, what the show did was take a somewhat problematic scene in the books, and made it infinitely more problematic. The problem is, rather than intentionally portraying this as a monstrous action of Jaime's (in the way that Joffrey's execution of Ned, the Red Wedding, and pretty much everything Ramsay ever does are shown as monstrous, horrible actions), the people involved with this scene created this as something that they intended to represent a consensual sexual encounter in a disturbing setting, and instead created something that the vast, vast majority of their viewers see as a rape. I mean, on the one hand I'm relieved to see so many people labelling it as rape because of Cersei's constant vocal protests, rather than stating "well, she's not fighting enough" or "They were in a relationship so she must have consented!" (not that I haven't seen these reactions too, but not as many as I might have expected given the victim blaming you often see in reports about sexual assaults in the modern day), but on the other hand, if these characters act like they just had a consensual sexual encounter on screen, then ... I don't even know. I've overlooked a fair bit of questionable stuff from the TV show towards it's female characters, but usually I roll my eyes and move on, this has been making me angry since I watched it.



For another, less serious bit of nitpicking, I hope they're not going to drag "Who really killed Joffrey?" out into some sort of ongoing mystery. It was solved pretty much instantly in the books by Littlefinger- the impact of the reveal was not because it was dragged out for ages but because we find out that after all the misery that Joffrey caused, and all of the people who had cause to genuinely hate him, he was killed not out of revenge, but to further the political agendas of two schemers (Olenna and the Tyrells by allowing them to marry Margaery to a more pleasant and easily influenced Lannister king, and LF by creating the chaos that he thrives in, and allowing him to seize the heir to the North in the confusion), and that they get away with it whilst Tyrion and Sansa - who DO have reason to hate Joff personally -take the blame. Now that we know that LF knew about the murder, and had the fake necklace made, it's pretty obvious that he has something to do with it, just reveal the plan rather than drag it out.


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I must confess that at the end of Episode 3, I turned to my son and said "That episode wasn't too bad. The best


so far". However.........I want to pick up on GRRM's comment about the butterfly effect and apply it to what they've


done to my favorite part of the books: Arya and the Hound.



I once described their scenes in SoS as The Ransom of Red Chief meets True Grit. What HBO is giving us is


Lone Wolf and Cub played for laughs. People seem to enjoy these scenes; I find parts of them funny myself


but they are a far cry from the beautifully developed story line GRRM wrote. The reason for this (and this is


where the butterfly effect comes in) is that with the whole SanSan story line tossed out the window like Bran,


there isn't much left for Arya and the Hound to talk about. There's no compelling hidden agenda for the Hound


to ingratiate himself with the Starks (when there were still Starks). The scene at the Inn was when the Hound


found out Sansa had been married to Tyrion in the book and he was really thrown by the news. On the show,


he just wants some chicken (a word I don't think is ever used in the books - how's that for nit-picky?). What's he going to say on his deathbed? Ask for more chicken? It's beyond sad.



And SanSan aside, isn't Arya just a little too perky? Shouldn't she be more traumatized by the Red Wedding?


In the book, she describes this hole in her where her heart used to be. She's shellshocked. Not getting any


of that from the show. She's more like a prepubescent Mary Tyler Moore running around with a grumpy Lou


Grant. The girl's got spunk. I hate spunk.



Also in the book, they are running for their lives; the Freys are out in force mopping up escapees from the Twins. Okay, we see them ride by some unconvincing dead bodies(where are the crows?) but the precariousness of


their situation doesn't seem to come across.



Sad.....it's just sad.


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