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Mladen

[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa VII: Agency issues and the death of Chekhov's gun

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As usual, we start with reminder that there will be spoilers from all 5 books of ASOIAF series, so you are advised to be careful if you haven't read the books.



Given the experience from last thread, please be polite to others and stick to the topic...



And now, Sansa in this episode. This episode, in terms of Sansa's arc, can be considered rather significant deviation from the book series. Although it is arguable that small change such as in how Sansa escaped King's Landing is significant, there is that point that the words "escape" and "taken from" are in fact 2 different words, and as such represent change. Luckily, the adaptation of Sansa's character hasn't gone through debauchery such as Tyrion (known as St. Tyrion of House Whitewashing), Jaime ("I pushed kid off the window, what's raping a sister for me") and Stannis, but the pile of these small changes can be considered troublesome.



The second part of this thread's discussion is the necklace. Many theories revolving Sansa was around possibility of use of the hairnet in the books (necklace in the TV show). With destruction of the gems and throwing it into a boat with Dontos, one can argue that it was a small hint about the importance of the "Chekhov's hairnet". What's your opinion about that?



Once again, welcome to the Discussing Sansa thread...


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Yeah, I think we can write off the hairnet theory, though that was always based more on a detail omission than anything else.



I said over the review thread, but the way the actual escape was staged was just terrible, on a filming level. It makes getting out of King's Landing look easy-peasy. I get that the book's cliff-scaling was not likely feasible, but surely something more challenging could have been devised? And then just a smash cut to the middle of the night and fog. No sense of the passage of time or anything.



The actual scene with Littlefinger was decent, though. They jury-rigged an adequate substitute for Littlefinger's missing "life is not a song" line callback. Though her protests regarding Dontos' intentions just have no emotional depth to them given how the grand sum of their interactions on the show were about thirty seconds.


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Irked by this yes. However, i do not think we need to toss out the idea that Sansa will kick LF's ass. In fact, im beginning to think that in the show, if LF gets poisoned, she does it with Sweet Sleep.



:o


Discuss!


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I was super attached to the poetic justice of Sansa using a "gem" from the hairnet to kill Littlefinger. Sad that the show seems to have ruled that out by disposing of the necklace.



Of course, if the giant prophecy does refer to Sansa killing Littlefinger, I dunno that poisoning would really fall under what I consider "slaying." Doesn't mean she won't kill Littlefinger or have a hand in it, just that it won't be through poison.



St. Tyrion of House Whitewashing


No lies detected.



I said over the review thread, but the way the actual escape was staged was just terrible, on a filming level.


Yeah. The cut from Tywin bellowing "No one leaves the capital" to Dontos and Sansa easily leaving the capital added an element of absurdity to the proceedings.


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Sansa will still kill LF, just not with the hairnet. No biggie there as far as I'm concerned. The act itself will be more important than the method anyway (and personally, I'd rather see her shove him out the Moon Door anyway.)


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Yeah, it is sad Sansa's escape was a moment the show would rather just have you accept, than when the show takes time to detail things so well like the filming of Olenna snatching the gem last week. This means it was an artistic executive decision, not that they were incapable of showing an elaborate Sansa getaway.



But oh well. I'm glad she's finally out and excited to see her story evolve from here.


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Yeah. The cut from Tywin bellowing "No one leaves the capital" to Dontos and Sansa easily leaving the capital added an element of absurdity to the proceedings.

I don't know. Tywin orders go as fast as riders can go and, in a city that big, it's likely that some point will be overseen. It's not like the Gold Cloaks are exactly exemplar city guards.

As for the necklace, it may or may not debunk the chekov's hairnet. After all, we didn't have a chain in season 2 and that didn't stop Tyrion from blowing up Stannis navy. If Sansa is scheduled to use the Strangler in the books, the show might resolve it in another fashion. Sweetsleep or some other medication can also do the job, or the conflict might be resolved otherwise.

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I would much have Sansa kill Littlefinger with the sweet sleep than the hairnet anyway. That seems more like poetic justice to me.



The escape seemed rather rushed to me, but I was pleased with the scene with Littlefinger. I'm glad she's at least still challenging Littlefinger, at least in regards to killing Dontos.



Mostly, I'm just glad she's finally out of King's Landing. I kept saying "GO GIRL, GO!" the whole time during the escape.


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I don't know. Tywin orders go as fast as riders can go and, in a city that big, it's likely that some point will be overseen.

Sansa and Dontos were like fifteen meters away when Cersei started yelling about Sansa. Where were all the perimeter guards? Or any of the other guards who would normally stop Sansa from just running away? Was that an option the whole time?

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I am on board with this that it doesn't have to mean something, and that we might still see the poisoning of LF via hairnet. TBH, given that there is a wide range of ways to kill someone in Westeros, hairnet could simply be replaced, or this just means that the theory about specific way of killing LF is incorrect. There are arguments for both sides. After all, Jeyne Westerling is the proof that these are 2 universes...



On the other hand, the escape... I loved how they used Dubrovnik's streets (or as Genoas people would call it - viccoli) and I am so amaze with the screenshots made of those scenes. Sophie Turner looks amazing...






Sansa and Dontos were like fifteen meters away when Cersei started yelling about Sansa. Where were all the perimeter guards? Or any of the other guards who would normally stop Sansa from just running away? Was that an option the whole time?





This... I agree... I almost expected someone to say "she is next to me" :) But given that in that scene everyone seemed so focused on Cersei and we could see people's back and them going to the center, one can assume that Sansa could have slipped. After all she did the same in the books. And in the books, she was even seen by Stokeworth family... IDK, I am torn between the hastiness of the scene which worked beautifully with Tywin and Cersei going nuclear and a bit naively done escape...






I am glad to see that Littlefinger is as creepy towards Sansa as ever.





You can always count on LF to enter the creepy factor...


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Maybe the easiness of the escape is to emphasize that the Starks could have pulled it off much, much earlier if they had actually tried?



I wonder if the tides will carry that boat back to KL to provide evidence for the trial.


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I would much have Sansa kill Littlefinger with the sweet sleep than the hairnet anyway. That seems more like poetic justice to me.

The escape seemed rather rushed to me, but I was pleased with the scene with Littlefinger. I'm glad she's at least still challenging Littlefinger, at least in regards to killing Dontos.

Mostly, I'm just glad she's finally out of King's Landing. I kept saying "GO GIRL, GO!" the whole time during the escape.

Guys, i think i need to just come right out and admit this detail. My sister-in-law had made lemon cake for easter sunday and we took some home with us. I nommed that shit while watching Sansa escape. It was so...satisfying.

Dude, Sansa's all "wtf is this happy horseshit?" about the whole situation and i love how shes not all "Oh Littlefinger, my hero!" Shes just like "Greeeat. Lord Creepy McCreepin' has me now."

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I don't think the problem with Sansa in seasons 2 and 3 was the escape but the afterwards. Ok, she's outside KL. What else? Arya has been veeeeery lucky and in show, Ned kinda told Yoren to take care of her.


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You can always count on LF to enter the creepy factor...

My favourite Tumblr caption for that scene.

Cripes, though, she's so noticeably taller than him, especially with her hair like that. I love Turner's height, but it really does kind of unbalance the way audiences typically read scenes on film, because normally height = command, but the only scene partner Sansa has ever had who is taller than her is the Hound, and she hardly had any scenes with him. She towers over everybody else, even while they're the ones normally imposing on her.

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Sansa and Dontos were like fifteen meters away when Cersei started yelling about Sansa. Where were all the perimeter guards? Or any of the other guards who would normally stop Sansa from just running away? Was that an option the whole time?

:agree:

Also, they rowed away from the city in broad daylight. Wouldn't someone on the walls have seen them?

Anyways, Sophie was gorgeous. Petyr was creepy. I don't have much more to say than that.

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Also, they rowed away from the city in broad daylight. Wouldn't someone on the walls have seen them?

"They're very slowly getting away, chief."

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Shame, I was counting pretty hard on that hairnet. Oh well, like others said, sweet sleep would be more poetic.



Hated LF in that scene. Man, he's getting pretty insufferable. They gave him lots of dialogue from the books and he still ruined it. Ugh.


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Anyways, Sophie was gorgeous. Petyr was creepy. I don't have much more to say than that.

She was indeed... Absolutely stunning...

Cripes, though, she's so noticeably taller than him, especially with her hair like that. I love Turner's height, but it really does kind of unbalance the way audiences typically read scenes on film, because normally height = command, but the only scene partner Sansa has ever had who is taller than her is the Hound, and she hardly had any scenes with him. She towers over everybody else, even while they're the ones normally imposing on her.

Well, as I know, LF is shorter than Sansa, so the show producers did it perhaps right job with casting these two... I think that you are right... I doubt that any member of the cast, save perhaps Jaime and Brienne with Hound would be taller than her at this moment. It will be interesting to see how that develops. I am afraid that we are slowly coming to that point where the age starts to play the role.

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