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[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa VII: Agency issues and the death of Chekhov's gun


Mladen

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My favourite Tumblr caption for that scene.

Cripes, though, she's so noticeably taller than him, especially with her hair like that. I love Turner's height, but it really does kind of unbalance the way audiences typically read scenes on film, because normally height = command, but the only scene partner Sansa has ever had who is taller than her is the Hound, and she hardly had any scenes with him. She towers over everybody else, even while they're the ones normally imposing on her.

I think it helps underscore Littlefinger's unworthiness: he is a small man trying to get into bed with a tall princess. A woman he would have no chance of getting with if she was free.

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I was happy to see TV Sansa taking on a more distrusting tone with LF than she had with other characters in the series. Maybe this means her character will finally start to evolve a bit more in the show. I'm not keen on Sansa poisoning LF, unless it's in small doses, the way he's been doing with sweet robin.


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Height=command is nonsense in real life. In movies, height and camera angles tend to refer to the character's power. If you want, you can check Tyrion' power wielding scenes. You will probably notice that the camera is either at his height or at an angle parallel to the ground instead of being at the height of a normal person and aiming at Tyrion looking down at him.

Now, you can continue to argue "but in real life", but you would be arguing against well established photography and movie theory.

And that makes Sansa more powerful in her situation because she's taller, how exactly?

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And that makes Sansa more powerful in her situation because she's taller, how exactly?

That makes Sansa harder to be visually despicted as an scared fourteen years old girl than it would have been if the actress was a petite fourteen years old girl
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That makes Sansa harder to be visually despicted as an scared fourteen years old girl than it would have been if the actress was a petite fourteen years old girl

But it didn't make it harder to visually depict a dwarf as a powerful man the way it would have been if he had been 7 feet tall?

Do the camera tricks you spoke about disappear when it comes to girls, or what?

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But it didn't make it harder to visually depict a dwarf as a powerful man the way it would have been if he had been 7 feet tall?

Do the camera tricks you spoke about disappear when it comes to girls, or what?

It did make it harder, as you can't reasonably shoot him from below.

Here, learn something new

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_angle

I don't even know what Sophie Turner's genitals have to do with this.

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I think they have made TV Sansa a lot dumber than book Sansa: book Sansa would never have spoken so openly to Tyrion or Shae, would never have said something stupid like 'will my family be at my wedding', likewise tv Sansa, rather than hiding the hairnet/necklace in her coat, simply allows Petyr to take them off her, nor has she yet figured out that Petyr had a hand in Joffrey's death (despite his pretty obvious hints).


This is not to deny that book Sansa didn't make some tremendously poor decision/demonstrate bad judgement, for example in telling Dontos about the Willas plot.


But TV Sansa is an utter ninny.



Also I am sad they made her irreligious: I think religion can be quite useful to women if they manage it correctly. See Margaret Beaufort (who was tremendously religious in real life) and how her religiosity in White Queen enabled her to do monstrous things.


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I'm one of the those that does NOT want Sansa to poison Little Finger.



My Ideal situation is that as LittleFinger teaches her and guides her in manipulation and understanding people she slowly turns others against him. Littlefinger's MO is that, as a person's moment of triumph he turns the table (Ned with the Gold Cloaks, Joff at the Wedding). I want her to beat him at his own game but be better than him. I don't want Sansa getting her hands dirty, she's her father's daughter, I want the moment when Littlefinger helps her get to power and then she immediately orders the guards to seize him. I want him dragged from the hall screaming while she picks up a Lemon cake and eats the fuck out of it.


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It did make it harder, as you can't reasonably shoot him from below.

Here, learn something new

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_angle

I don't even know what Sophie Turner's genitals have to do with this.

Learn something new? What? That you're making no sense? That's nothing new.

Guess what, nowhere in that article does it say anything about the impossibility of tall actresses playing characters in a powerless position, as opposed to very short actors who apparently have no problem playing characters in powerful positions.

Oh,I guess I did learn something new: you are able to find the most unexpected reasons to bring up "Sophie Turner's genitals". Congratulations. :rolleyes:

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I'm one of the those that does NOT want Sansa to poison Little Finger.

My Ideal situation is that as LittleFinger teaches her and guides her in manipulation and understanding people she slowly turns others against him. Littlefinger's MO is that, as a person's moment of triumph he turns the table (Ned with the Gold Cloaks, Joff at the Wedding). I want her to beat him at his own game but be better than him. I don't want Sansa getting her hands dirty, she's her father's daughter, I want the moment when Littlefinger helps her get to power and then she immediately orders the guards to seize him. I want him dragged from the hall screaming while she picks up a Lemon cake and eats the fuck out of it.

I don't want her to poison him, either. It would also be extremely anti-climactic.

I like your scenario much better, except I kinda hope that she rubs it in his nose that Catelyn was really never into him, any more than she was, and that his obsession with both of them was always futile and doomed to fail.

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I'm one of the those that does NOT want Sansa to poison Little Finger.

My Ideal situation is that as LittleFinger teaches her and guides her in manipulation and understanding people she slowly turns others against him. Littlefinger's MO is that, as a person's moment of triumph he turns the table (Ned with the Gold Cloaks, Joff at the Wedding). I want her to beat him at his own game but be better than him. I don't want Sansa getting her hands dirty, she's her father's daughter, I want the moment when Littlefinger helps her get to power and then she immediately orders the guards to seize him. I want him dragged from the hall screaming while she picks up a Lemon cake and eats the fuck out of it.

Can't. Stop. Laughing.

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Learn something new? What? That you're making no sense? That's nothing new.

Guess what, nowhere in that article does it say anything about the impossibility of tall actresses playing characters in a powerless position, as opposed to very short actors who apparently have no problem playing characters in powerful positions.

Oh,I guess I did learn something new: you are able to find the most unexpected reasons to bring up "Sophie Turner's genitals". Congratulations. :rolleyes:

/Facepalm

No, it's new for you. Now go back to the stuff I actually wrote and try to find the word "impossible" somewhere. As for Sophie Turner's genital, you were the one who immediately brought forward her gender when changing the subject to Tyrion.

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I'm one of the those that does NOT want Sansa to poison Little Finger.

My Ideal situation is that as LittleFinger teaches her and guides her in manipulation and understanding people she slowly turns others against him. Littlefinger's MO is that, as a person's moment of triumph he turns the table (Ned with the Gold Cloaks, Joff at the Wedding). I want her to beat him at his own game but be better than him. I don't want Sansa getting her hands dirty, she's her father's daughter, I want the moment when Littlefinger helps her get to power and then she immediately orders the guards to seize him. I want him dragged from the hall screaming while she picks up a Lemon cake and eats the fuck out of it.

This would be absolutely fantastic. Kudos to you.

I will like my "suplex through the moon door" best, but Eats The Fuck Out Of A Lemoncake is almost as good and has the bonus value of actually being plausible. :)

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The poison-bearing jewelry is no more in this continuity. Sansa's going to have to suplex him.

And they're not moving down-mountain for the winter, probably, to both save on set design costs and because that trip is pretty dull without Mya Stone existing anyway (and they cut Cat's ascent back in season 1, so we don't have the symmetry/resonance of doing it again in the other direction).

Ergo, Sansa Suplexes Littlefinger Through The Moon Door. It will be so ridiculous, it will instantly become my favorite scene in the history of television.

I think the trip down the mountain is important because it fundamentally changes the circumstances Sansa's in (i.e., there's way more people around). And since the show tore down the Eyrie's high hall set after this season, I think that indicates they can be very sure there's no further need for it.

They'll definitely have to leave the Eyrie, so that Sansa and LF can continue their interactions with the rest of the Vale lords and ladies (and whatever else they get up to in TWOW). There is snow in AFFC before they leave the Eyrie (remember that Sansa crafts a Winterfell out of snow, which leads to her tearing the head off AnnoyingRobin's "giant"?).

Agreed. "Avuncular," my ass.

Hm. Well, the Eyrie post-ASOS scenes don't really need to take place in the high hall, so I guess it makes sense that they would do that.

When I read that interview with AG, all I could hear was Chris Rock saying that everyone has got that one molester uncle!

LOL!!!

Yer missing the point of the theory. The point is that Littlefinger drops his guard so much cuz Sansa ropes him into thinking shes a really stupid little girl and empty headed and going along with his crap, only to have him fall for the hoist by his own petard. Which wouldnt be cheesy at all but a nice "neeeneeer" moment. In Soviet Westeros, Sansa kicks YOU!

:bowdown:

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I think they have made TV Sansa a lot dumber than book Sansa: book Sansa would never have spoken so openly to Tyrion or Shae, would never have said something stupid like 'will my family be at my wedding', likewise tv Sansa, rather than hiding the hairnet/necklace in her coat, simply allows Petyr to take them off her, nor has she yet figured out that Petyr had a hand in Joffrey's death (despite his pretty obvious hints).

This is not to deny that book Sansa didn't make some tremendously poor decision/demonstrate bad judgement, for example in telling Dontos about the Willas plot.

But TV Sansa is an utter ninny.

Also I am sad they made her irreligious: I think religion can be quite useful to women if they manage it correctly. See Margaret Beaufort (who was tremendously religious in real life) and how her religiosity in White Queen enabled her to do monstrous things.

Yeah, though I part of it is because most of her thought are difficult to translate on screen, so they have to make her say things aloud.

One of favorite things about book!Sansa was her faith, so yeah I wasn't happy with the change either. It looked like she gaving up, but one of the strong points of Sansa's character is that she always had hope and kept enduring. The show made her a weaker character imo.

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Yeah, though I part of it is because most of her thought are difficult to translate on screen, so they have to make her say things aloud.

One of favorite things about book!Sansa was her faith, so yeah I wasn't happy with the change either. It looked like she gaving up, but one of the strong points of Sansa's character is that she always had hope and kept enduring. The show made her a weaker character imo.

Hope? She believes she has to stay at the Eyre because she has nowhere else to go (and, as far as she knows, she's pretty much right, save for maybe Skagos). That's the thought of someone who has given up - with good reason I'd say.

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Just started reading this thread, 3 days to read the rape and necklace thread, when I saw the crystals get broken and pushed onto Dontos I thought Sansa's gonna get taken back to KL and she may still have the hairnet in her cloak making her guilty in KL eyes.



I was one who always felt that she doesn't need to kill him, but be the slayer of his lies and schemes and brake him that way and take from him all his hopes and dreams.


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I'm one of the those that does NOT want Sansa to poison Little Finger.

My Ideal situation is that as LittleFinger teaches her and guides her in manipulation and understanding people she slowly turns others against him. Littlefinger's MO is that, as a person's moment of triumph he turns the table (Ned with the Gold Cloaks, Joff at the Wedding). I want her to beat him at his own game but be better than him. I don't want Sansa getting her hands dirty, she's her father's daughter, I want the moment when Littlefinger helps her get to power and then she immediately orders the guards to seize him. I want him dragged from the hall screaming while she picks up a Lemon cake and eats the fuck out of it.

Yup,yup a thousand yups. :agree:

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