[Book and Show Spoilers] Episode 4 Promo

[Mel_Rose]

I realize that, but even so, I'm highly sceptical of this idea that if a character doesn't make it into the television series they have no substantial future role in the books. The fact that they already have an enormous cast points to budget concerns as a potential reason that Cold Hands might be cut.

A character that is cut from the show might still have a part to play (perhaps even a very significant part) but not an indispensable part.

Who is Rakharo? I thought he was a bloodrider?

[King Tommen]

I'm also very skeptical of when GRRM says that a character is "important" later on because if I were to take him at his word, then almost every single character he's put into the story plays some integral part in the series endgame which is obviously not going to be the case. More likely, he's just overly precious and possessive of all of the characters he's created so when he says "they're important", I take it to mean "I'm still going to mention them again."

[Thelastactionhero]

^That is true and I'm pretty sure Coldhands has a great deal of importance in terms of the mythology of the NW and Wall and all the rest. Its just his actual role (be it in this season and season to come) can be taken by different characters on the show.

I totally agree with you. It's just disappointing, because I feel like Coldhands would have really done a lot for Bran's arc, which both in the books and the television series is a little stale to me. And yeah Rakharo is one of Dany's primary bloodriders. I have no specifics on what future importance he has though, only whispers.

[Konradsmith]

^I think Bran's arc will be pretty exciting this season actually. This Craster's Keep invented stuff looks promising and it will be cool to see how the show pulls off Bloodraven and the CoTF.

[Bloodhair Petyr]

Guys, not really something to ruin ep.04, but I would rather see some crazy blood letters (got it? ;)), in the than someone explain that's valiryan for kill the masters than see slaves who don't speak english to write down. But that's just not important.

About coldhands, I really want to see him, hope he gets introducted as bloodraven bodyguard or something, but that's just foolish hope i think :(

[Chebyshov]

Guys, not really something to ruin ep.04, but I would rather see some crazy blood letters (got it? ;)), in the than someone explain that's valiryan for kill the masters than see slaves who don't speak english to write down. But that's just not important.

About coldhands, I really want to see him, hope he gets introducted as bloodraven bodyguard or something, but that's just foolish hope i think :(

Mayhaps we'll need our nitpicking with impunity thread before the episode airs this week...that bothered me as well ;)

[Thelastactionhero]

^I think Bran's arc will be pretty exciting this season actually. This Craster's Keep invented stuff looks promising and it will be cool to see how the show pulls off Bloodraven and the CoTF.

Honestly I thought most of Bran's arc in season 3 was a snooze fest until they got further north and that kid who plays Rickon came out of nowhere with some really impressive acting. I'm interested in the shit at Craster's though, especially since the fact that they've changed up the arc a bit so us book readers don't know exactly how it all plays out.

[Konradsmith]

^Bran's dreams last season were cool but that skinning rabbits scene was a real dud. I do understand the need for place-holder scenes though. I liked Queenscrown quite a lot and his ep. 10 material.

[King Tommen]

A Dance With Dragons is dedicated to a friend of mine, (though admittedly along with a good number of other people) and he had a conversation with George about his concerns over Rakharo being cut from the show. Take from that what you will. The point however, is that basing all your speculation regarding the future importance of certain characters on whether or not they're in the television series is really dumb.

The point is with these minor characters like Rakharo, they barely have been established on the show with anything approaching a unique characterization. Rakharo is a Dothraki who is loyal to Dany. If there is a specific Dothraki loyal to Dany who becomes really important in the books later on, they can elevate someone randomly into that spot without missing a beat (as they did with Kovarro in S2). Kovarro is basically Rakharo on the show now since they unceremoniously had to kill him off due to the actor taking his movie role.

Coldhands though, you would have a hard time replacing as he's a fairly unique character so it would be tougher to pull the same move. That would signify to me that you either put him on the show or you don't based on his importance. Since he's not being included at all, I assume he's not important. It's not like they don't include tons and tons of characters from the books big or small. At and Beyond the Wall, they didn't have to include the Reeds, Dolorous Edd, Pyp, any COTF etc but they did because they added enough to the story to warrant inclusion. Coldhands doesn't and I believe it's because they see that his whole purpose is to be Bran's guide and they would like to give Bran a little bit more responsibility in this journey and a more direct connection to Bloodraven.

[Metopheles]

What you all missed

Why is Sam not yet considered the biggest asshole?

He did not swear not to tell about Bran. Leaving poor Jon ignorant of the fact that his brothers are dying out there. tsk tsk tsk.

[Chebyshov]

What you all missed

Why is Sam not yet considered the biggest asshole?

He did not swear not to tell about Bran. Leaving poor Jon ignorant of the fact that his brothers are dying out there. tsk tsk tsk.

They didn't really address it (maybe they will now that the NW has to go north of the wall to deal with the Craster Crew), so for all we know, Sam did tell Jon.

I do hope we get some closure on this one way or the other, though.

[Konradsmith]

Maybe Locke will come out and say "Where are your brothers?" And Jon will say "Theon Greyjoy burnt them..." Locke will say "No, he didn't, your hiding them!" And then Sam will look all guilty. "I promised...it was offscreen but I still promised..."

[Metopheles]

Maybe Locke will come out and say "Where are your brothers?" And Jon will say "Theon Greyjoy burnt them..." Locke will say "No, he didn't, your hiding them!" And then Sam will look all guilty. "I promised...it was offscreen but I still promised..."

good catch..

But I hope that Styr makes Jon some house warming present of Locke sausage.

I mean fuck that they changed that. I was so anticipating the scenes when Jaime is told that his crippler was being eaten by himself.. At least give the Thenns a taste of Locke leg.

They already butchered the Thenns, why not Locke?

[MR92]

I just don't see the reason to why they cut Coldhands. (if he is indeed cut, considering that John Bradley was talking about his character with coldhands only).

Not only it elliminates any hope the book readers had to see more from him/his backstory and identity in the next two books, it also makes it kinda dump how a company of mainly kids and a direwolf made it that far north of the wall without help.

I get it that having CH walking around on a giant Elk would be overkill even for a show like GoT, but cutting an important character completelly?

I know everyone is sayign CH is cut because John Bradley announced it...but why havent david and dan? or George? I mean are we really going by what JOhn Bradley says? I mean yeah hes a main character in the show, but they really know nothing...And do they have the authority to annouce something like that? I just dk why David , Dan or George have been vey quiet on this subject...unless someone knows something otherwise? I havent had much faith in them adding CH, so im not optimistic hell be in there at all...im just confused why we are all listening to John Bradley.

[Yelloweyedemon]

Coldhands though, you would have a hard time replacing as he's a fairly unique character so it would be tougher to pull the same move. That would signify to me that you either put him on the show or you don't based on his importance. Since he's not being included at all, I assume he's not important. It's not like they don't include tons and tons of characters from the books big or small. At and Beyond the Wall, they didn't have to include the Reeds, Dolorous Edd, Pyp, any COTF etc but they did because they added enough to the story to warrant inclusion. Coldhands doesn't and I believe it's because they see that his whole purpose is to be Bran's guide and they would like to give Bran a little bit more responsibility in this journey and a more direct connection to Bloodraven.

Again, it is not about if he's that much important or not. He's impressive and mysterious by nature. He's exactly a character you would like to see in a FANTASY novel.

Same goes for Leaf. Bloodraven. The kindly old man. etc...

I'd rather chose any of those than what we get. (Good 5+min sex and nudity in each episode involving the red viper, or Cersei crying)

[King Tommen]

I know everyone is sayign CH is cut because John Bradley announced it...but why havent david and dan? or George? I mean are we really going by what JOhn Bradley says? I mean yeah hes a main character in the show, but they really know nothing...And do they have the authority to annouce something like that? I just dk why David , Dan or George have been vey quiet on this subject...unless someone knows something otherwise? I havent had much faith in them adding CH, so im not optimistic hell be in there at all...im just confused why we are all listening to John Bradley.

Did you get an HBO press release about Strong Belwas being cut? They don't go out of their way to announce those types of things. It just kind of becomes self-evident when you watch the show and they aren't there.

Casting announcements which happened last summer were always a good time to figure this out. Bloodraven, Styr, the Thenn warg played by Joseph Gatt and a COTF were announced as being cast and there was no Coldhands to be seen. That was a good clue. Him not showing up with Sam and Gilly in S3 was an even better one.

[King Tommen]

Again, it is not about if he's that much important or not. He's impressive and mysterious by nature. He's exactly a character you would like to see in a FANTASY novel.

Same goes for Leaf. Bloodraven. The kindly old man. etc...

I'd rather chose any of those than what we get. (Good 5+min sex and nudity in each episode involving the red viper, or Cersei crying)

Then complain to GRRM because 90% of his novels have nothing to do with fantasy, or at least the supernatural fantasy you're referencing. They are very tiny elements in a larger story he's telling.

Bran (who is now in the most overtly traditional fantasy journey) has had exactly 3 chapters of material in the last 2 books so maybe your complaint about how much emphasis is placed on other settings is being made to the wrong people.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

Again, it is not about if he's that much important or not. He's impressive and mysterious by nature. He's exactly a character you would like to see in a FANTASY novel.

Same goes for Leaf. Bloodraven. The kindly old man. etc...

I'd rather chose any of those than what we get. (Good 5+min sex and nudity in each episode involving the red viper, or Cersei crying)

Amen and THANK YOU... My thoughts exactly. You have a good point with the John Bradley thing, although I believe CH will not be making an appearance. I saw a con interview with Maisie Williams on YouTube and when asked about watching scenes that she did not film, she said that it doesn't happen and the scenes she does not appear in, she watches on TV like everyone else. So your argument isn't off base at all.

Then complain to GRRM because 90% of his novels have nothing to do with fantasy, or at least the supernatural fantasy you're referencing. They are very tiny elements in a larger story he's telling.

Bran (who is now in the most overtly traditional fantasy journey) has had exactly 3 chapters of material in the last 2 books so maybe your complaint about how much emphasis is placed on other settings is being made to the wrong people.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing. What good will it do to complain to George about the show when he basically has no control over the content besides what he writes himself? And taking in consideration the massive amounts of correspondence he receives, and the fact that TWOW is long overdue, let's not waste the man's time. In my opinion, you're wrong that the books are 90% "nothing to do with fantasy" -- the books are fantasy. Have you ever been to a country, or heard of a country, that had a ten-year summer? Or families who have magical abilities in their bloodlines? The books are littered in fantasy if you care to notice....

[King Tommen]

Amen and THANK YOU... My thoughts exactly. You have a good point with the John Bradley thing, although I believe CH will not be making an appearance. I saw a con interview with Maisie Williams on YouTube and when asked about watching scenes that she did not film, she said that it doesn't happen and the scenes she does not appear in, she watches on TV like everyone else. So your argument isn't off base at all.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing. What good will it do to complain to George about the show when he basically has no control over the content besides what he writes himself? And taking in consideration the massive amounts of correspondence he receives, and the fact that TWOW is long overdue, let's not waste the man's time. In my opinion, you're wrong that the books are 90% "nothing to do with fantasy" -- the books are fantasy. Have you ever been to a country, or heard of a country, that had a ten-year summer? Or families who have magical abilities in their bloodlines? The books are littered in fantasy if you care to notice....

I said complain to GRRM because it's the source material (the books) that make a point of focusing a ton of material on the political machinations and wars that are based on the War of the Roses campaigns. The things that are more traditionally "fantasy" are very much limited and doled out in very small doses throughout the series.

As I mentioned, it was the overtly "supernatural fantasy" the guy I was responding to was referencing (i.e. Bloodraven, CH, COTF, dragons, magic etc). He was going on and on about how the show focuses on its non-fantasy elements but I don't think the fantasy elements are in any different ratio than the books are. You can look no further than the chapter distributions and see who gets the bulk of the material dedicated to them to see this.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I said complain to GRRM because it's the source material (the books) that make a point of focusing a ton of material on the political machinations and wars that are based on the War of the Roses campaigns. The things that are more traditionally "fantasy" are very much limited and doled out in very small doses throughout the series.

As I mentioned, it was the overtly "supernatural fantasy" the guy I was responding to was referencing (i.e. Bloodraven, CH, COTF, dragons, magic etc). He was going on and on about how the show focuses on its non-fantasy elements but I don't think the fantasy elements are in any different ratio than the books are. You can look no further than the chapter distributions and see who gets the bulk of the material dedicated to them to see this.

You are right about the very small doses, but I think those are of utmost importance... but I understand what you are saying, and respect that.

TBH, the show does include a lot of the fantasy - dragons, WW, resurrection, visions, skinchanging, wildfire - and in each episode there is something. I think they do a good job with it. I understand budget constraints, though, so I'm only a bit disappointed at no CH. It just would have been awesome to see it from the book to the screen. :)

I don't like some of the other elements that are present a lot of the time (like he/she said, the sex and the at-times needless drama) but I am pretty pleased at the amount of fantasy -- they're so talented at putting it onto the screen, I wish there were more!