The Kinkslayer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 So show Tywin recruits Oberyn by telling him that the 7K need Dorne to fight against Dany's dragons because she is at their doorstep (for sure!). Now, is hinted that book Oberyn actually signed the Arianne-Viserys marriage pact and that before Quentyn started his faithful trip to Meereen nobody took tales of dragons as something serious, so having a capable hand of the king that is aware of Targaryen Dragons is not something on Oberyn's best interests. Varys kept telling the small council that his little birds heard tales of dragons in slaver's bay, together with crakens sinking ships by the isle of nuncles and a conflict between the Snarks and Wabberjockies, so enough to claim that he informed the council but not framed to be taken seriously. The issue here is that I don't remember any hint of book Tywin taking the dragon threat seriously. So what is show Tywin planning on doing with the impending dragon invasion? Dornish-style guerilla warfare?, that would hardly result in his golden grandson keeping his crown. The scenario I'll like to discuss is what can Tywin realistically do to keep Dany away from Westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty3009 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 So show Tywin recruits Oberyn by telling him that the 7K need Dorne to fight against Dany's dragons because she is at their doorstep (for sure!). Now, is hinted that book Oberyn actually signed the Arianne-Viserys marriage pact and that before Quentyn started his faithful trip to Meereen nobody took tales of dragons as something serious, so having a capable hand of the king that is aware of Targaryen Dragons is not something on Oberyn's best interests. Varys kept telling the small council that his little birds heard tales of dragons in slaver's bay, together with crakens sinking ships by the isle of nuncles and a conflict between the Snarks and Wabberjockies, so enough to claim that he informed the council but not framed to be taken seriously. The issue here is that I don't remember any hint of book Tywin taking the dragon threat seriously. So what is show Tywin planning on doing with the impending dragon invasion? Dornish-style guerilla warfare?, that would hardly result in his golden grandson keeping his crown. The scenario I'll like to discuss is what can Tywin realistically do to keep Dany away from Westeros? It's possible that Tywin doesn't take the threat seriously but was just using the gossip about Dany as ammunition in his conversation with Oberyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 At this point, Oberyn (and Dorne) know about the dragons? Because in some trailer/featurette/BTS we see Oberyn writing a letter, while he talks with Cersei. Probably informing Doran about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averde Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Book Tywin doesn't take it seriously. I think it's included on the show to make Dorne sound cool and introduce the whole Oberyn as a judge idea to the TV audience. If show Tywin did have a plan to beat the dragons I imagine it would be something like the red wedding or some other assassination plan to eliminate Daenerys, if she's dead the Targaryen cause is dead. It's the only realistic shot of winning. Guerrilla warfare wouldn't work because eventually, in a similar way to Roberts description of a Dothraki invasion, the common folk would just proclaim Danny queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombies That Were Promised Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You can brush off dragon rumors, you can brush off those silly Greyjoys raiding, but a 100,000 wildlings? Why isn't Tywin sending aid to the Night's Watch? Just a minor nitpick about this episode for me.edit: er i guess i answered myself. maybe tywin doesn't believe 100,000 wildlings is possible either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 TV-Tywin takes the dragon threat seriously and will make preparations... which TV-Cersei will undo within a fortnight after he dies.I think that's the point. To have Tywin make competent decisions now so that Cersei can undo them later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Didn't Joffrey suggested about the Dragons last season and Tywin shut him down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrion Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I liked how the rumors of Dany's dragons are lost in translation in the books, seeing as most of the tales come from sailors and not spies, they put a little hyperbole in their stories. In the show, I guess they didnt want to deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envie Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's possible that Tywin doesn't take the threat seriously but was just using the gossip about Dany as ammunition in his conversation with Oberyn. I'm going to go with this guess too. They're setting television viewers up to 'believe' Tywin believes it. And honestly - does it matter whether he was lying to Oberyn or not? He won't be around to laugh about the lie or worry about the truth either way. It was a useful tool to get the audience riled up about Daenarys again - who has a killer ending scene this episode. Well played D&D - well played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metr0man Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I suspect the line might have tipped us off about Dorne resisting Dany (perhaps after finding out about Quentyn). Anyways I'm glad they are trying to keep the plots connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Desmond Wine's Bane Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I really hope the letter isn't played as "Hey Doran, Tywin tells me there is a girl with dragons in Essos. How is young Quentyn these days?" It beggars belief that Dorne doesn't hear the rumours before KL. The letter would be much better if played as informing of the news - especially about the Small Council and overtures of alliance. And the Mountain being offered as bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You can brush off dragon rumors, you can brush off those silly Greyjoys raiding, but a 100,000 wildlings? Why isn't Tywin sending aid to the Night's Watch? Just a minor nitpick about this episode for me. edit: er i guess i answered myself. maybe tywin doesn't believe 100,000 wildlings is possible either. 100,000 unwashed savages streaming into the North a kingdom that doesn't concern him. Why send his own soldiers to defend the North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckface Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I really hope we all could go back in time and D&D would erase this scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I believe Tywin isn't sending help to the Wall cause he hopes the Wildlings and North end up killing eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 At this point, Oberyn (and Dorne) know about the dragons? Because in some trailer/featurette/BTS we see Oberyn writing a letter, while he talks with Cersei. Probably informing Doran about it This would be good groundwork for setting up Quentyn's journey, so that wouldn't seem so out of left-field to show watchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 100,000 unwashed savages streaming into the North a kingdom that doesn't concern him. Why send his own soldiers to defend the North? Because there's no way this 100,000 unwashed savages will ever come south right. They'll stay in the cold savage North all winter long, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Because there's no way this 100,000 unwashed savages will ever come south right. They'll stay in the cold savage North all winter long, lol They could hardly take on 1500 knights without running around like chickens with their Mance's cut off. What do you think 20,000 knights and 80k infantry would do to that rag tag bunch? They would break on the first charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Martin Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 This was the vehicle to introduce Quentyn Martell's storyline. It explains how Dorne knows about Dany without making it overly complicated....Or, my crackpot is it's a set up. Tywin wants Oberyn to show his pro-Targ colors so he'll have an excuse to execute Oberyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 They could hardly take on 1500 knights without running around like chickens with their Mance's cut off. What do you think 20,000 knights and 80k infantry would do to that rag tag bunch? They would break on the first charge. So just let the wildings destroy the North and hope they never come South, that's how you would handle things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwoofwoof Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I recall in the books Tywin & KL repeatedly ignored ravens requesting lots more men for the wall and news of imminent death, doom, and destruction. They sent a thief or two, but definitely no serious support. They blew off the warnings of wildlings, walkers, and dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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