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[Book spoilers] On Tywin and dragons


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Because there's no way this 100,000 unwashed savages will ever come south right. They'll stay in the cold savage North all winter long, lol

Why would they come south, when the North can easily sustain them through any winter that isn't the Long Night (and nobody in the south, except for possibly Marwyn believes that it is imminent)? And should the wildlings be victorious, come spring, they would be easier to re-conquer than the northmen proper. In fact, surviving northmen would be likely to ally with the south to get rid of the wildlings.

Tywin thinking that Dorne would ever support the Lannisters against a Targaryen with an army and 3 dragons (even small ones) is just dumb and completely OTT, IMHO. But then, the show Tywin is much dimmer and more of a blowhard than the book one. I dare say that if book Tywin got believable info about Dany, he would have reacted very differently.

Varys, when he sorta reported about the birth of the dragons, made it sound completely ludicrous and left Dany out of it. So, no wonder that everybody on the council, including Tywin and Tyrion just dismissed it as tall tales from far lands. And they didn't get any more news on that score until Tywin was dead.

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In the books obviously Tywin doesn't care about the threats across the Sea or beyond the Wall.



In the show, I think Tywin doesn't care about the dragons even if he believes they exist, he was just trying to get Oberyn on his side and gave him some lame ass excuses.



I do hope they include some Council meetings where they all argue amongst themselves. That would be fun to watch, it doesn't happen in the books.





If Tywin did try to do anything against Dany, my bet is his first move would be to send spies to gather info on her, followed by assassins maybe.


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In the books obviously Tywin doesn't care about the threats across the Sea or beyond the Wall.

In the show, I think Tywin doesn't care about the dragons even if he believes they exist, he was just trying to get Oberyn on his side and gave him some lame ass excuses.

I do hope they include some Council meetings where they all argue amongst themselves. That would be fun to watch, it doesn't happen in the books.

If Tywin did try to do anything against Dany, my bet is his first move would be to send spies to gather info on her, followed by assassins maybe.

I agree. And I also don't think Oberyn bought any of it, but sees the offer as a chance to get information, as well as opportunities to poison Tywin.

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I saw the scene and thought Tywin was just exaggerating the threats to the 7k in terms of Wildlings and the Dragons in order to get Oberyn and ultimately dorne, into the fold. He may have sounded like he believed they were real threats but he was playing it up to get Oberyn by his side, and sealed the deal by offering up the Mountain as bait.


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In the books obviously Tywin doesn't care about the threats across the Sea or beyond the Wall.

In the books, Tywin is not aware of any threats from across the sea after he gets to KL. And he is indifferent concerning the wildling threat to the North and isn't aware of/doesn't believe in the Others.

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You can brush off dragon rumors, you can brush off those silly Greyjoys raiding, but a 100,000 wildlings? Why isn't Tywin sending aid to the Night's Watch?

Just a minor nitpick about this episode for me.

edit: er i guess i answered myself. maybe tywin doesn't believe 100,000 wildlings is possible either.

Well it's in the novels too.

Not only the Wildings southern movement but worse not taking the Others seriously at this point.

All the impending doom in the North goes on for a long enough time that some serious intelligence about it should have reached KL by now , in the novels and in the show.

One wonders when the hell it does dawn in the south?

Even George has left this hanging in the novels.

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This was the vehicle to introduce Quentyn Martell's storyline. It explains how Dorne knows about Dany without making it overly complicated....

Or, my crackpot is it's a set up. Tywin wants Oberyn to show his pro-Targ colors so he'll have an excuse to execute Oberyn.

Wouldn't that ruin a good storyline? The line about Arianne's betrothed dying to a pot of gold was one of the best in the books, followed by "Justice. Vengeance. Fire and Blood"

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The show meeds to start connecting Dany to Westeros and I believe that is what the scene last night was trying to do. There will also be a small council meeting later in the season where they are discussing Dany (per the preview of things to come video). I think they will also make it crystal clear at the end of the season that Tyrion is being set off to join Daenerys.


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I liked how the rumors of Dany's dragons are lost in translation in the books, seeing as most of the tales come from sailors and not spies, they put a little hyperbole in their stories. In the show, I guess they didnt want to deal with that.

I liked the change because it's necessary due to the change in timeline. In the books, not a lot of time passed between books 1 and 3. But the show has to deal with the younger actors aging. So Tywin not knowing or not taking Dany serious on the show makes it look odd.

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One wonders when the hell it does dawn in the south?

Even George has left this hanging in the novels.

The South is more concerned with playing the iron Throne game to worry about small stuff like dragons and white-walkers. Heck, even the Boltons do not take this seriously. They are also more concerned with claiming the North to worry about all this.

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It's possible that Tywin doesn't take the threat seriously but was just using the gossip about Dany as ammunition in his conversation with Oberyn.

This is pretty much it. Tywin is a smart man, no doubt he would use whatever he could to convince Oberyn to join him, even if he doesn't believe the Dany & her pets are a threat himself.

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So just a theory here based on if Tywin really does believe Dany is a threat.

In the books Ser Barriston saves Dany from Mero(?) outside of Meereen and that leads to her finding out the truth of Ser Jorah. If show Tywin believes Dany and her dragons are real maybe he will either A: instruct Varys to tell Jorah to take out Dany and somehow this message will be found by Barriston, Daario or someone and that will lead to Jorah's punishment. Or B: he sends his own assassin that knows of Jorah's involvement and before the assassin dies he reveals what Jorah was really doing early on to Dany.

I guess that would be a logical way to have Dany find out this information since they can't do it how the book goes about it.

This would be a big variation between show and book Tywin but since we all know what's going to happen I think I would enjoy this deviation.

Overall I do believe he is just BS-ing with Oberyn to persuade him to be a judge and get Dorne on his side.

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Well it's in the novels too.

Not only the Wildings southern movement but worse not taking the Others seriously at this point.

All the impending doom in the North goes on for a long enough time that some serious intelligence about it should have reached KL by now , in the novels and in the show.

One wonders when the hell it does dawn in the south?

Even George has left this hanging in the novels.

I believe there is a reason to this. Everything from the north is getting mocked and I dont believe many are taking dany seriously. On top of that they are fighting a war to some extent at this point and trying to reunite the kingdom. You have everyone who cares only about their house and behind the door deals that if by chance there was some credible evidence besides a rotten piece of meat that thorne brings to kings landing. I dont think it would matter regardless. There is such an imbalance with the powers at be that getting any assistance to the north or worrying about dany is impossible. The help that is needed for the wall and to counter dany is for the kingdom to be united, in which at this point is not even close. It wouldn't make sense for all of sudden Tywin to shift his attention from the turmoil that surrounds his family and the realm to unite for everyone to go north. It would be so far off from what this book and tv show is about that it would be laughable.
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Yeah, why would show Tywin think telling Oberyn about Dany would convince him to join up with the Lannisters? "Hey so I know you're still upset that we killed Elia but her sister-in-law has dragons so... Join us!"

I do like Stark11's theory about this being used to put Mormont's betrayal back into play, though.

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