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What if the Red Wedding never happened?


iliasb

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Hello, I'm new to this forum and I hope I'm welcome here!



So, after reading the books, I always wondered one thing. What if the Red Wedding never happened and the Freys never betrayed Robb and went to war with Robb Stark. Would "Robb's Rebellion" have any chance of success?


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Hello and welcome!




Cat, Arya and Robb would be reunited, for one thing. The Hound might have served Robb.



Would he have won? Probably not against the Tyrell-Lannister coalition. Wouldn't have taken the Iron Throne. Would still be plagued by the Ironborn. And Roose Bolton would presumably still be plotting. Honestly, it's hard to imagine Frey sticking with this situation, even if he didn't have a writ from Tywin himself and a complicated betrayal plot. Sooner or later, he would abandon Robb, because Walder doesn't like to be on the losing side.


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It depends how you want to talk about it.

If the story doesn't move forward (purple wedding, Aegons arrival, etc. don't happen) then Robb loses. The Tyrells and Lannisters together would crush him, undoubtedly. Robb's honorbound to protect the Riverlands, and my guess would be that's where he'd die. If he did go back north then he just prolongs his fate till maybe the following summer.

If the story does move forward (all that stuff happens) I still think Robb dies either fighting somewhere or has his death orchestrated by Tywin or Bolton. If he does live for a bit the rest of Westeros would soon be in enough chaos that most people would have probably forgotten about the King in The North and he's got a better chance of survival.

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His chances of success were minimal. His holdings in the Riverlands would inevitably fall and return to the Iron Throne's control. If he stayed and battled the Tyrell/Lannister forces, he'd get crushed. The best thing Robb could do after Edmure's wedding is attempt to retake Moat Cailin from Victarion, and stay north of the neck. The South would try to launch multiple attacks, but he holds the advantage at the Neck and in the North.

The independence movement would be succesful for a short amount of time, but whatever reason he marched south for would be deemed a failure, especially with all the men he lost. He'd still have the problem of the apocalypse coming at his kingdom's border.

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I think that Robb never really stood a chance. If he didn't die at the Red Wedding, he would have been crushed either by the Tyrell/Lannister alliance, murdered and betrayed by Bolton or died while trying to defend the North from the IB.



Maybe Catelyn would have survived and become a rallying point for the Riverlanders and Northerners, but I just don't see any version of this that ends with Robb winning.


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Robb was pretty screwed after the Lannister-Tyrell was made. His best hope would be to block them at Moat Cailin as there was no way he could beat them in a battle. If the story continues on things would get interesting as Stannis would arrive in the north (personally I would think they would make an alliance against the IT) and Aegon would arrive, forcing the army beseiging Moat Cailin to return to the south. After this it is anybody's guess what would happen, there are too many variables.


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If Robb did win, he wouldn't want to take the throne himself.

I think that once he won, he'd have declared for Stannis or fAegon or Dany or whatever. Once he'd got his sisters back and got revenge for what happened to his father.

No, He wouldnt never win the IT, he never wanted the 7 kingdoms. What he wanted was revenge on the Lannisters and then the north and riverlands to be independent. He wouldnt declare for any contender for the IT, as that contender wanted all of the 7 kingdoms and not half of it. If he won he would still have to deal with Feagon, Dany or Stannis

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I, for one, think the Lannister-Tyrell alliance would be royally screwed:



Euron would be attacking the Reach, the Vale lords would revolt as soon as Lysa dies and would be free to join Robb, Stannis wouldn't go North so he would continue the fight from Storm's End and Dragonstone and might even try to get the support of Dorne (as Tywin feared), the Freys staying loyal means the Riverlands are not easy pickings for the Lannister forces, and Robb could have even made a deal with the wildlings (the same one they made with Jon and Stannis) so they can join his cause and, I don't know, lay siege to Casterly Rock or something.



And on top of all this, Aegon and/or Dany would still be coming


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Euron would be attacking the Reach, the Vale lords would revolt as soon as Lysa dies and would be free to join Robb, Stannis wouldn't go North so he would continue the fight from Storm's End and Dragonstone and might even try to get the support of Dorne (as Tywin feared), the Freys staying loyal means the Riverlands are not easy pickings for the Lannister forces, and Robb could have even made a deal with the wildlings (the same one they made with Jon and Stannis) so they can join his cause and, I don't know, lay siege to Casterly Rock or something.

Frey wouldn't have stayed loyal. Even if he was honest he still would have told Robb to go F himself. Robb lost the north with a wedding but it was his wedding to Jeyne not the red one. That only hastened the inevitable.

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I, for one, think the Lannister-Tyrell alliance would be royally screwed:

Euron would be attacking the Reach, the Vale lords would revolt as soon as Lysa dies and would be free to join Robb, Stannis wouldn't go North so he would continue the fight from Storm's End and Dragonstone and might even try to get the support of Dorne (as Tywin feared), the Freys staying loyal means the Riverlands are not easy pickings for the Lannister forces, and Robb could have even made a deal with the wildlings (the same one they made with Jon and Stannis) so they can join his cause and, I don't know, lay siege to Casterly Rock or something.

And on top of all this, Aegon and/or Dany would still be coming

Robb wouldve died soon after regardless due to Frey/Bolton plotting, if it not happening at the RW then maybe on a battlefield.

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I, for one, think the Lannister-Tyrell alliance would be royally screwed:

Euron would be attacking the Reach, the Vale lords would revolt as soon as Lysa dies and would be free to join Robb, Stannis wouldn't go North so he would continue the fight from Storm's End and Dragonstone and might even try to get the support of Dorne (as Tywin feared), the Freys staying loyal means the Riverlands are not easy pickings for the Lannister forces, and Robb could have even made a deal with the wildlings (the same one they made with Jon and Stannis) so they can join his cause and, I don't know, lay siege to Casterly Rock or something.

And on top of all this, Aegon and/or Dany would still be coming

1) Euron won't immediately attack the Reach. They have to wait for the Kingsmoot to be over first. The only invaded in ADwD or near the end of AFFC IIRC.

2) The Vale Lord won't revolt and rush to Robb's side. Sansa exaggerated. Opinions in the Vale were more mixed than she led us to believe.

3) Wouldn't Stannis just keep sulking at Dragonstone?

4) Even with the Frey's the Riverlands are going to be easy pickings for a combined Lannister and Tyrell army.

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1) Euron won't immediately attack the Reach. They have to wait for the Kingsmoot to be over first. The only invaded in ADwD or near the end of AFFC IIRC.

2) The Vale Lord won't revolt and rush to Robb's side. Sansa exaggerated. Opinions in the Vale were more mixed than she led us to believe.

3) Wouldn't Stannis just keep sulking at Dragonstone?

4) Even with the Frey's the Riverlands are going to be easy pickings for a combined Lannister and Tyrell army.

1) No Euron attacked and took the Shield Islands which is apart of the Reach in AFFC this is pretty clear, dont know how you missed this.

2) Dont know where you get this from.

3) Stannis was not sulking, he was listening to his advisors for the next course of action.

4) Agreed.

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With no Red Wedding (let's say Robb doesn't marry Jeyne Westerling), I could still see the Freys switch side. They just wouldn't do anything as brutal as the RW. But with the Tyrells now on team Lannister, Walder would see where the war is going and just block the Twins, leaving Robb in the Riverlands, forcing him to either


a) try to siege the Twins, almost impossible unless you hold boith sides of the river (which Robb wouldn't).


or


b ) try to take the Kingsroad, which mean having to fight Randyll Tarly.



And we don't know what Roose's move in this scenario would be. I doubt he'd openly align himself with the Lannisters, but he might just keep sabotaging the war efforts from inside.


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1) No Euron attacked and took the Shield Islands which is apart of the Reach in AFFC this is pretty clear, dont know how you missed this.

2) Dont know where you get this from.

3) Stannis was not sulking, he was listening to his advisors for the next course of action.

4) Agreed.

1) Oh. Alright then. They'll attack a book later. Either away it won't be immediate.

2) I got it from GRRM.

The Citadel: So Spake Martin - Clans of the North and the Valelords

3) Whatever you say.
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