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[Show and Book SPOILERS] I don't understand [scene with Cersei and Jaime]


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I think you underestimate the fear a woman is under in a moment like that. She's much smaller and weaker than he is, and she's no fighter. She doesn't see a wine handed weakling. She sees Jaime Lannister. Plus, she's been victimized before. Even if you deny that Robert raped her, you know he abused her in those moments.

I think you underestimate Cersei. And what you've said there is the prime example of completely ignoring what they've established in their relationship.

Why in seven hells would she fear her brother and lover, when she has been fearing for his life for 2+books? She may be feeling many things in that situation, but fear is definitely not one of them.

Cersei is no "fighter" - in the sense that she doesn't go to battle and wield a sword. But in another sense, she is definitely a fighter. We have seen previous examples of how she gets her opinion known to others. She's not the type to sit there idly and let others have their way with her without a fight (e.g. look how she tried to get out of her mess in ADWD with the septons).

You're right - she doesn't see a one handed weakling. She sees Jaime - the person who she knows will never hurt her. The person who she knows she can manipulate and to do what she wants, even dehand an innocent child if she asked him to. She knows full well she has almost complete control over him.

You're also right - she's been victimised and raped before by Robert. Look how she dealt with that - by swearing red vengeance and plotting his death and demise. She's the type to remember slights and dishonours. And her way of solace during those times she was raped by Robert was to have sex with Jaime. Again, why the hell would she fear Jaime's advances? It makes no sense. You're ignoring too much of her character.

It's irrational fear but real nevertheless. I don't see why people think she was fine with it given that She spends the next two books brooding because she's not enough like Tywin. I don't buy that the lack of reflection about the incident in her chapters somehow shows that she was fine with it either. I'm not a woman, but I would probably try to block it.

I can see perfectly fine why people think she was fine with it because:

- they have a perfectly fine conversation afterwards, like nothing strange has happened between them.

- She spends the next book thinking back on how Robert abused her, and how much she hated him for it. And yet when she thinks of Jaime, it's always thoughts of affection (apart from the times when he refuses to be manipulated by her - which is hardly a result of him "raping" her). She thinks of how Jaime gave her what Robert couldn't, and how he stayed by her side during Joffrey's birth when Robert didn't give a fuck etc etc.

- She makes no attempt to block it, hell she even makes reference to it when she's seducing Jaime a while later in the White Tower.

And yes, you're not a woman. And yes, a normal woman would probably try to block out their trauma. But Cersei is no normal woman. I don't like it when people use the argument that "a normal person would want this == therefore Cersei would want this too". It's BS, because we have seen repeatedly Cersei does not react and treat situations like normal people would. Instead of "blocking out" her traumas, she thinks on them and lives on them. She never forgets them.

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Of course it matters. You can't willingly have sex with someone and then claim rape.

If anyone is the victim, it's Jaime for being manipulated so Cersei can get what she wants.

This reply is so triggering and so disgusting that I've literally decided to not come to this forum anymore.

The fact that the scene that played out in the show has made someone find Jaime the victim is appalling.

Since this will be my last post in this forum, let me tell everyone here why it's rape. It's rape because it made women uncomfortable. It's rape because people behind this show didn't think for a second whether or not fans would be offended by this.

I am so fucking glad it didn't offend a bunch of straight men. But I'm sorry, it was fucking rape. Everything Cersei (LH) did in that scene was saying no. Once again, I don't give a shit if she grabbed a table. No is fucking no. Not here means not fucking here. All that d&d had to do was add one fucking line "just do it already", anything really, for this to be consensual. But they didn't. And you better bet your ass they did it on purpose. They aren't fucking stupid. They meant to get a rise out of audiences. They used rape to get a buzz going.

And that's almost as disgusting as all the people here fucking defending it.

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