(Book Spoilers) Lady SH cut?

[Konradsmith]

I saw you on IMDB thrones board, Lady Sati. How can you bear it, isn't it troll city over there?

Just started listening to "winter is coming". Could work! That was played when Bran woke up, IIRC. Though they might also just go with a variation of their Lord of Light theme because they used it for the Beric/Hound fight too.

[King Cheops]

Lady Stoneheart is one of the most ridiculous twists GRRM put in his books. I seriously hope they cut it. I spoiled it to my wife and she met it with the groans that people are predicting.

[Konradsmith]

Strongly disagree. I think GrrM intended it from the beginning and it was very important to how things will turn out. The endgame if you will.

[Konradsmith]

Well they played it with the BWB, so it seems to be more the R'hllor theme than anything. I hope they play the King's Arrival when Stan shows up. For LSH Ramin may actually come up with an entirely new theme.

[Konradsmith]

^Yeah, I can't wait to hear his Oberyn theme in full. That's the first use of guitar that I've noticed in the show soundtrack (aside from his "For the Realm" but that was just recorded for the CD).

As for those who think LSH was a shitty twist, it's not as though GrrM brought her back because he was sentimental. She's going to do some damage.

[LordStoneheart]

That scene still angers me. Terrible.

I loved it. It was amazing. Probably their greatest season ending.

Lady Stoneheart is one of the most ridiculous twists GRRM put in his books. I seriously hope they cut it. I spoiled it to my wife and she met it with the groans that people are predicting.

I don't understand the criticism this one gets. It's not like she was magically alright again. Unless you read it too fast, you realize that this is a monstrous form of life and Catelyn has changed.

[~DarkHorse~]

I don't understand the criticism this one gets. It's not like she was magically alright again. Unless you read it too fast, you realize that this is a monstrous form of life and Catelyn has changed.

:agree: It honestly baffles me how people want LS cut. Why!?

I think the viewers will love this cliffhanger, especially if they go with the RW vengeance theme (which people really want) rather than jumping straight to the Brienne/Lady Stoneheart confrontation. The Red Wedding has been the most impactful/iconic scene of the series so far and Catelyn was central to that so seeing her return as a monster is heart-breaking, yet the notion of revenge is exciting. She keeps the North/Frey arc going rather than having all those scenes dedicated to Robb being for nothing other than just to end in defeat.

This will be the best cliffhanger yet!

Lady Stoneheart adds a whole new dynamic to the show- beautiful and loving mother turned into a vengeful zombie! This isn't Catelyn returned from the dead, she isn't Catelyn anymore...which people seem to miss. :dunno:

Also, lots of characters are dying this season so bringing back one will be a pleasant surprise...although, I think people would've preferred Ned. lol

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

It would be funny if they pulled a gandalf and had her come back with a shiny robe and white hair.

[~DarkHorse~]

It would be funny if they pulled a gandalf and had her come back with a shiny robe and white hair.

Gandalf is already on the show ;)

[Chebyshov]

:agree: It honestly baffles me how people want LS cut. Why!?

I think the viewers will love this cliffhanger, especially if they go with the RW vengeance theme (which people really want) rather than jumping straight to the Brienne/Lady Stoneheart confrontation. The Red Wedding has been the most impactful/iconic scene of the series so far and Catelyn was central to that so seeing her return as a monster is heart-breaking, yet the notion of revenge is exciting. She keeps the North/Frey arc going rather than having all those scenes dedicated to Robb being for nothing other than just to end in defeat.

This will be the best cliffhanger yet!

Lady Stoneheart adds a whole new dynamic to the show- beautiful and loving mother turned into a vengeful zombie! This isn't Catelyn returned from the dead, she isn't Catelyn anymore...which people seem to miss. :dunno:

Also, lots of characters are dying this season so bringing back one will be a pleasant surprise...although, I think people would've preferred Ned. lol

Agreed. Also her resurrection is a supernatural event that we might need as a precedent for other characters moving forward. It changes the rules of the world.

[Fez]

:agree: It honestly baffles me how people want LS cut. Why!?

Personally, I don't like how it cheapens the impact of the Red Wedding, and, more importantly, cheapens the impact of character deaths in general. Once you start introducing the concept of death not necessarily being final, the stakes start dropping since the reader/viewer never knows what other things you may reduce to suddenly undo.

Dead characters should stay dead.

[LordStoneheart]

It would be funny if they pulled a gandalf and had her come back with a shiny robe and white hair.

Close, but you're way off. Catelyn as a monstrous resurrection is possibly a response to Gandalf coming back better in the LotR

[Konradsmith]

^Did GrrM ever say that specifically? That sounds like something he would say. I mean some people thought it was hypocritical that he criticised Gandalf coming back because he has his own resurrections but that would be a pretty sound justification for it.

[LordStoneheart]

^Did GrrM ever say that specifically? That sounds like something he would say. I mean some people thought it was hypocritical that he criticised Gandalf coming back because he has his own resurrections but that would be a pretty sound justification for it.

I don't think he said it specifically, but based on this interview he basically connects the two.

@Fez, perhaps this interview might give you a different view on the "cheapening" of the RW. I don't think it cheapens it at all.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I can see the argument for it 'cheapening' the RW if they had made the reveal in S03E10. Bringing her back in S04 will be about shock.

As for the decayed body - Its magic and fantasy so that trumps reality. I will be happy if they keep the 'grey' colour makeup theme that has been alluded to, with suitably gruesome neck scarring.

[Konradsmith]

Thanks LordStoneheart. He really is mischievous when it comes to his approach to the genre!

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I think Black Walder is fairly recognizable- he gut stabbed Talisa and slit Catelyn's throat. Also, he's the only Frey (besides Lord Walder and Roslin) who has had lines e.g. "Why? Do you want to count her teeth?" when Edmure asked to see Roslin, and he was the one joking with Talisa during the wedding about how expensive the musicians were...sick git.

Also, the Frey responsible for RobbWind said "Black Walder shut her up right fast" when mocking Catelyn's death which leads me to believe Stoneheart might be hanging him- the man who killed her, Talisa and her unborn grandchild.

I'm really hoping the LS introduction won't be hanging Brienne. It won' t give us time to appreciate RW/Frey vengeance before seeing LS as an unreasonable monster and bad guy.

edit- typo

Lol you're getting two Freys mixed up. Remember it was Black Walder and the Lame Walder? that negotiated the wedding terms at Riverrun. And it was the Walder with the limp that told Talisa how expensive the band was and also the one who stabbed her. Black Walder killed Cat.

[~DarkHorse~]

Lol you're getting two Freys mixed up. Remember it was Black Walder and the Lame Walder? that negotiated the wedding terms at Riverrun. And it was the Walder with the limp that told Talisa how expensive the band was and also the one who stabbed her. Black Walder killed Cat.

Yeah, you're right! Thanks :)

They all look the same with those stupid hat things on their heads. lol

I'm betting she hangs the one with the limp.

[Fez]

I don't think he said it specifically, but based on this interview he basically connects the two.

@Fez, perhaps this interview might give you a different view on the "cheapening" of the RW. I don't think it cheapens it at all.

I disagree. Death (your own) shouldn't be a "transformative experience" it should be final. And its not just about cheapening the Red Wedding, its also about cheapening death itself. Now that the precedent has been set that Beric isn't a special snowflake (or AA), it opens up the doors to anyone coming back. We already know that Jon will, and there could easily be others. Its as bad as the fakeouts that GRRM uses so often, once or twice is fine, but almost every POV character has now had a cliffhanger where they may have died, but then they haven't.

Good Lord. Stoneheart's vengeful existence is worse than death. It adds to RW tragedy.

How? Unless/until she kills an ally or family member, she's become the avenging angel of the wronged. Its tragic for her, being nothing else then that, but its a triumph for the anti-Frey cause.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Yeah, you're right! Thanks :)

They all look the same with those stupid hat things on their heads. lol

I'm betting she hangs the one with the limp.

Yep they sure do. It's easy to get those stupid weasel faces mixed up. And I bet you're right about lame Walder going first. From reading the books Black Walder always seemed like the heir apparent to take over the Frey brood once Walder died.