(Book Spoilers) Lady SH cut?

[Seneti]

I think Black Walder is fairly recognizable- he gut stabbed Talisa and slit Catelyn's throat. Also, he's the only Frey (besides Lord Walder and Roslin) who has had lines e.g. "Why? Do you want to count her teeth?" when Edmure asked to see Roslin, and he was the one joking with Talisa during the wedding about how expensive the musicians were...sick git.

Also, the Frey responsible for RobbWind said "Black Walder shut her up right fast" when mocking Catelyn's death which leads me to believe Stoneheart might be hanging him- the man who killed her, Talisa and her unborn grandchild.

I'm really hoping the LS introduction won't be hanging Brienne. It won' t give us time to appreciate RW/Frey vengeance before seeing LS as an unreasonable monster and bad guy.

edit- typo

They were probably the only other "named" Freys so far, yes, but I doubt viewers will be able to recall their names and faces one year later. We'll have to see.

Gandalf is already on the show ;)

:lmao: That just made my day. Thanks ;)

They all look the same with those stupid hat things on their heads. lol

Agreed.

[LordStoneheart]

@Fez, well the fake-outs are both just the style he uses to keep pages turning after spending time screenwriting in Hollywood, but also they just make sense. Take Arya's death fake out. The Hound has to knock her out to get her away from the RW to save her, so that chapter ends with her getting knocked out. Sure, it's a "fake out" but it keeps the pages turning, it keeps people guessing. That's just good storytelling. As far as cheapening death itself, I think we'll just have to disagree. I think it makes death more sacred. We've only had Beric and Catelyn come back. No one else really has unless you count theories, which I don't yet. But that's not a good life for either of them. I love what Catelyn is doing now but I hate that this is the life she has. It's worse than death. She's rotting. Her skin is falling off her face. She can't talk because her throat is still slit. I think she doesn't eat or sleep (that could be Mel, or something else.) All this just makes death look preferable instead of a half-life, or even less than half life.

I absolutely love revenge stories. With every Frey gone I'm gonna feel a bit better about the RW... but I would never call her an "angel" because of it. More like demon now. Nothing wrong with that, but her story is definitely not to be seen in a "good" light.

[Rashtibram]

IMO simply introducing the concept of resurrection into a story famed for its "no one is safe" atmosphere is invariably going to cheapen the suspense and impact of the narrative, no matter how tortured an existence the resurrected characters may have. I'm not saying that they should cut Lady Stoneheart – I'm looking forward to that twist as much as anyone – but that aspect of the books has always made me cringe.

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

Gandalf is already on the show ;)

Brilliant, :rofl:

surely the make up dept did this on purpose when they made the walkers

[7th-key]

I found curious, that in s04e01, there is a scene of Cersei and Jaime talking about ever been confronted with a DeadCat...

And I can think of nobody else, Cat would rather have revenge on.

ETA: in the same episode Sansa reveals what the Frey had done to her mother's body. Also her brother's body, but that we already knew.

[HairGrowsBack]

I found curious, that in s04e01, there is a scene of Cersei and Jaime talking about ever been confronted with a DeadCat...

And I can think of nobody else, Cat would rather have revenge on.

Wow, I hadn't even made the connection ! Don't know if it was written on purpose, but if so, this is brilliant.

[Koi No Yokan]

I found curious, that in s04e01, there is a scene of Cersei and Jaime talking about ever been confronted with a DeadCat...

And I can think of nobody else, Cat would rather have revenge on.

ETA: in the same episode Sansa reveals what the Frey had done to her mother's body. Also her brother's body, but that we already knew.

The exchange:

Cersei: He smells like a dead cat.

Jaime: I'm not sure I've ever smelled a dead cat.

Cersei: Well they smell like Pycelle.

[VladimirDulud]

I think they'll cut Lady Stoneheart.

Michelle Fairley's IMDB page, which usually is updated with a performer's work, makes no mention of the role.

Of course, they could use another actress, wearing heavy make-up, in her stead, though I doubt they'd do that.

Fairley, in several interviews, gave the impression that it truly final.

Someone asked her, 'is this it?' and she replied, that it was.

It would seem to be in keeping with the showrunners' subdued approach to the fantastical elements of the show, as well.

Though of course I'd love to see her onscreen - I don't see much evidence for it.

Here's hoping some of you do?

:drool:

[LordStoneheart]

They'd definitely keep this secret, and I think with technology and the state LS is supposed to be in they can use Michelle Fairley's likeness without having to keep her around physically.

[Rashtibram]

As has been cited quite a lot with regards to this issue, they kept Jason Mamoa's cameo a complete secret for his appearance in the finale of season 2. They're quite good at keeping such things hidden from the general populace, and they're certainly not going to confirm it in interviews prior to the season's airing or update Fairley's IMDB page to include Lady Stoneheart.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

As has been cited quite a lot with regards to this issue, they kept Jason Mamoa's cameo a complete secret for his appearance in the finale of season 2. They're quite good at keeping such things hidden from the general populace, and they're certainly not going to confirm it in interviews prior to the season's airing or update Fairley's IMDB page to include Lady Stoneheart.

^ This. It will be very easy to use Fairley for a few days or even a week to shoot a scene and keep it completely under wraps.

[rmholt]

The actress did tease about it a bit at the end of last season. http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/game-of-thrones-michelle-fairley-catelyn-interview-spoilers

[Seneti]

As has been cited quite a lot with regards to this issue, they kept Jason Mamoa's cameo a complete secret for his appearance in the finale of season 2. They're quite good at keeping such things hidden from the general populace, and they're certainly not going to confirm it in interviews prior to the season's airing or update Fairley's IMDB page to include Lady Stoneheart.

This. LS is such a spoilery moment - that's what non-disclosure clauses in TV contracts are for.

[Danelle]

I disagree. Death (your own) shouldn't be a "transformative experience" it should be final. And its not just about cheapening the Red Wedding, its also about cheapening death itself. Now that the precedent has been set that Beric isn't a special snowflake (or AA), it opens up the doors to anyone coming back. We already know that Jon will, and there could easily be others. Its as bad as the fakeouts that GRRM uses so often, once or twice is fine, but almost every POV character has now had a cliffhanger where they may have died, but then they haven't.

I agree to a certain extent about cheapening death.

So far we had people escaping death due to

• supernatural events (Dany at Drogo's funeral pyre)

extreme luck (Tyrion and Arya have been exposed to multiple dangers and even though they are both resourceful, they were also quite lucky as well)

importance(lots of people are convinced that Jon will survive or he will be somehow resurrected. In any case he is too important to die just like that)

Cat was one of the major POV characters, and her tragic demise was one of the most crucial events in the books.

Her return was a shock, but somehow I am not convinced that she came back just to avenge the Freys and the Lannisters.

Both Houses are already in the self destruct mode.

Besides, Bran gaining supernatural abilities, Sansa trained in diplomacy, Arya becoming a skilled assassin and Rickon possibly returning to the North under the protection of Wyman Manderly, suggest that the children are better candidates for Stark revenge and restoration.

It could be that she will lead the BWB against the Freys and Lannisters, and use Daven's wedding as the perfect occasion to avenge Robb and Ned.

So far we have seen very little of LS. She had a cameo appearance in SOS and she became more prominent in FFC.

The thing is that I don't think that she is there simply to kill her enemies and the people who wronged her.

Since I think that it would be anticlimactic for Jaime and/or Brienne to die at her hands in WOW,

Likewise, her getting killed during a raid against Lannisters and Freys or even killed by Jaime or Brienne, would be anticlimactic as well.

The main problem that I have with Cat's ressurection, is that I think that it would have been better if she hadn't died at all.

If Cat was lost, or presumed dead, like Arya, and somehow she ended up as a leader of the BWB I would have liked it more.

Are you familiar with Sweeney Todd the Musical?

The original story, was not about revenge, but once it was adapted to a musical, the cruel murderer became more sympathetic. Benjamin Barker was a well respected and loved barber, who was wrongfully imprisoned and forced to leave his family. After years, he returns back home, his new name is Sweeney Todd and all he wants is revenge.

I would have liked it more if Cat returned as LS without the need to include a resurrection, in a similar manner to Barker's return as Sweeney Todd.

[DixiesArcher]

Checking IMDB for roles is no good theyre not that dumb to give away things like that.

[rmholt]

IMO the replacement of Beric Dondarrion Zombie with Cat Zombie represents the decline of the good Robin Hood BWB into a gang of bitter merciless gangsters. Re animation south of the wall seems to make the zombie a more pure form of the human's basic nature. Of course I think Cat was a bitter, manipulative, inept, vengeful, paranoid creep when alive.

[LordStoneheart]

IMO the replacement of Beric Dondarrion Zombie with Cat Zombie represents the decline of the good Robin Hood BWB into a gang of bitter merciless gangsters. Re animation south of the wall seems to make the zombie a more pure form of the human's basic nature. Of course I think Cat was a bitter, manipulative, inept, vengeful, paranoid creep when alive.

Close, but you're way off. It was the beginning of the BWB actually taking charge, giving fairer trials, and slowly giving up the lie to themselves that they were fighting for the greater good only.

[Dany's Silver]

Gandalf is already on the show ;)

Alternatively....

I like the idea of LSH being part of the endgame of ASoIaF, and not just a vengeful zombie (although, I will enjoy seeing some of those cuntmouthed Freys slain). As much as I suspect that Jon will eventually wield Lightbringer, perhaps LSH's interactions with Brienne and Jaime will lead to the realization that Oathkeeper is Lightbringer, but it needs to be triggered somehow? Thoros might also be instrumental in that regard..

My mom has finally listened to me and started reading the books (she started halfway through ASOS yesterday afternoon), and when she finished last night, I got a call with her saying, "Holy shit! She's alive!" She was pretty happy about that. Also, my mom says re: Lysa, "She's fucking crazy." :rofl: Now she says that she wants to know what's happening for the rest of the series, but that I'm not going to let her off the book about reading AGoT and ACoK. :read:

[Keishi of Oldstones]

Probably the last thing we see this season will be Stoneheart's reveal either when Nymeria and BwB find her body or when she is already Stoneheart hanging Freys.