explaining the Daenerys odium

[El Guapo]

I'm going to agree with the overall sentiment here. I used to like Dany, then her story just becomes boring. not just in the sense that it's been 4 books and she's just hanging around. Not just that her villains are mustache twirling. Hell, not even that she has some of the most annoying repetitive lines I've ever had the misfortune of having to read.

No, the real boring in her character is that I've never once felt like she's been in any trouble. Not once have I thought "well how is she going to get out of this?". And that's unacceptable.

And how exactly is this different than any other major character like Tyrion or Jon, or hell even Arya?

[HexMachina]

But the notion that Daenerys doesn't suffer at all in this story is just flat out ridiculous as others have pointed out in this thread.

Thank you. Suffering is relative to each person's situation. Dany had nowhere to go but up from the start, so there was nothing for her to lose (she lost it all in a GoT. Now that she has climbed back up somewhat, undergoingbmuch emotional distress, general stress and difficulties, she is set up to lose a lot, as Ibhave said.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Honestly I'm hard pressed to think of a character who has lost or suffered more than her?

She lost her brother & parents

She lost her other brother (even tho Viserys was a twot he was still her brother)

She lost her child

She lost her husband

She was betrayed by her most trusted advisor

She will never be able to bear children...

What more do you want? Her handed over to Ramsay maybe? Lol

[Stormland's Fury]

And how exactly is this different than any other major character like Tyrion or Jon, or hell even Arya?

Those were near death or in danger of getting excecuted. Jon got even stabbed after all.

[Salinda]

Favored by the author? Every character is favored by the author..until they're not. Not really a legitimate reason to like or dislike a character

[HexMachina]

q

Those were near death or in danger of getting excecuted. Jon got even stabbed after all.

Yes, but how many actually think Jon is dead? Few on these boards anyway, which is the same point as was made for Dany

[Guard of the Rainking]

Honestly I'm hard pressed to think of a character who has lost or suffered more than her?

She lost her brother & parents

She never even met them.

She lost her other brother (even tho Viserys was a twot he was still her brother)

While she didn't even lift a finger to stop it.

She lost her child

Hard I grant you that, but nothing compared to someone like Catelyn who had raised her children for years it pretty clear who suffered more.

She lost her husband

She was betrayed by her most trusted advisor

On ASOIAF standards I wouldn't even call that a true betrayal.

She will never be able to bear children...

What more do you want? Her handed over to Ramsay maybe? Lol

Sorry for constantly editing ;).

Here are a few characters who have suffered more:

Catelyn

Robb

Arya

Sansa

Rickon

Bran

Jon

Ned

Theon

Edmure

Tyrion

Doran

Stannis

Jaime

Aemon

[KalibakCruel]

And how exactly is this different than any other major character like Tyrion or Jon, or hell even Arya?

Jon, the currently in limbo Jon? I'll pretend you didn't say that. Tyrion, who I was sure was dead when Oberyn died, who has been hideously disfigured, caught by Jorah and sold into slavery? Arya who in the books there's actual suspense when the axe heads towards her after the RW, and who wondered about when she first captured?

I could keep going. Agot Dany was interesting. She's hasn't been since then.

[Starspear]

I can see where you're going with Jaime and Robb, but Cersei?

How can you compare the fact that she went insane (if she ever really was sane) and therefore lost her pride vs. losing your husband that you loved? Yes, Cersei lost a husband, but she never cared about Robert, she was in that relationship for what it brought the Lannisters. As for honor she never had it.

Also, look at how Dany's childhood. Wouldn't you say that from where she was, it was easier to go up? From what I read, we get the understanding that the Starks/Lannisters/Barathon's and virtually every other house had it pretty easy between Robert's Rebellion and where GOT starts.

Good point on her childhood... sadly, we as readers don't experience these hardships, so they don't exist on the emotional spectrum (of the reader).

On Cersei: loss of Joffrey, and walk of Shame (is what I mostly was referring to). She loses her lover, her father... she suffers. This does not condone her actions. She is caged and tortured by the Septon. Daenerys has yet to experience these types of consequences. And Cersei is not a character I find has lost as much as she could have. Think of Jeyne Poole. Of Catelyn Stark... the list is long. Daenerys is not on that list.

[Stormland's Fury]

Yes, but how many actually think Jon is dead? Few on these boards anyway, which is the same point as was made for Dany

As soon as other POV's started to show up on the Wall he wasn't really that important anymore for a while.

Dany is the only character who was the only POV for like 4 books in her region and wasn't involved in other plot lines.. Killing her off meant no Essos, that's why she was such a sure thing.

[Dragon's Bane]

Tyrion and Jon off the top of my head

You mean Tyrion, the guy who got his nose cut off for defending the realm? The guy who got no credit at all for that, lost the woman he loved, thus lost the ability to love itself? The guy who got imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit, found out he was betrayed by a woman he might have loved, if he knew how? The guy that was never acknowledged his rightful position as heir to Casterly Rock, ending up being an outcast? The guy who earned back a standing with some new people before being kidnapped by some asshole?

Don't get me wrong, he did a lot of bad stuff and he didn't exactly pay for the bad stuff he did, but he definitely paid a lot.

Jon did not make many mistakes in my eyes. In the HBO show he did, but the show is crap. He did pay by losing the first girl he ever loved, being despised for wanting to save the realm, getting (almost?) killed by his brothers. And there's the loss of practically his whole family.

Which begs the question: are you kidding me?

[Stormland's Fury]

I could keep going. Agot Dany was interesting. She's hasn't been since then.

Yeah her arc was really intriguing in that and then it fell flat.

[Starspear]

I'm going to agree with the overall sentiment here. I used to like Dany, then her story just becomes boring. not just in the sense that it's been 4 books and she's just hanging around. Not just that her villains are mustache twirling. Hell, not even that she has some of the most annoying repetitive lines I've ever had the misfortune of having to read.

No, the real boring in her character is that I've never once felt like she's been in any trouble. Not once have I thought "well how is she going to get out of this?". And that's unacceptable.

You are absolutely correct. But why this misstep by the author, if it is such, Nowhere else is this the case, true?

[Starspear]

Favored by the author? Every character is favored by the author..until they're not. Not really a legitimate reason to like or dislike a character

we shall see. Two to go, though skeptical.

[KalibakCruel]

You are absolutely correct. But why this misstep by the author, if it is such, Nowhere else is this the case, true?

Here I have no idea. Maybe he created a world too complex and needed to sort out other things before getting back to Dany. I don't know. GRRM is a great writer and I cannot explain why he made Dany so flat for much of the series.

[Dragon's Bane]

Again, during GoT she suffered quite a bit and she was a sympathetic character at that point. But after the plot-armor-device-thingy with fire she just went around threatening everybody, accepting gifts from everybody, being ungrateful to everybody and never paying any price for that.

[El Guapo]

Jon, the currently in limbo Jon? I'll pretend you didn't say that. Tyrion, who I was sure was dead when Oberyn died, who has been hideously disfigured, caught by Jorah and sold into slavery? Arya who in the books there's actual suspense when the axe heads towards her after the RW, and who wondered about when she first captured?

I could keep going. Agot Dany was interesting. She's hasn't been since then.

Yes the currently in limbo Jon who nobody truly believes is actually dead.

As far as Tyrion or Arya goes no I never thought either one of them was truly in danger ever in the books.

[Starspear]

Favored by the author? Every character is favored by the author..until they're not. Not really a legitimate reason to like or dislike a character

Favored was being used in a different sense.

GRRM favors Arya and Tyrion too - but they remain in a consistently, consequential world.

[KalibakCruel]

Yes the currently in limbo Jon who nobody truly believes is actually dead.

As far as Tyrion or Arya goes no I never thought either one of them was truly in danger ever in the books.

That's you. But let's assume NO ONE thought they'd die at all....They're still gong through things. Dany isn't. Arya has been captured twice, lost her family while being so close. Tyrion has been disfigured, blamed for a crime he didn't commit, shunned by his father, left to a distant land, then was captured and sold into slavery, Jon has had to kill a member of the NW to infiltrate a group, he fell in love with a girl, then had to fight her and watch her die. He's hated by some for making tough decisions, and even if he is alive, he was still betrayed and stabbed by his own brothers.

Dany? Her only hardship is hearing about how a city she freed went into chaos. Yes, her ego being hurt because she didn't do something prefect is the height of her hardship. She's made plenty of mistakes and her only consequence is a bruised ego.

[HexMachina]

You mean Tyrion, the guy who got his nose cut off for defending the realm? The guy who got no credit at all for that, lost the woman he loved, thus lost the ability to love itself? The guy who got imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit, found out he was betrayed by a woman he might have loved, if he knew how? The guy that was never acknowledged his rightful position as heir to Casterly Rock, ending up being an outcast? The guy who earned back a standing with some new people before being kidnapped by some asshole?

Don't get me wrong, he did a lot of bad stuff and he didn't exactly pay for the bad stuff he did, but he definitely paid a lot.

Jon did not make many mistakes in my eyes. In the HBO show he did, but the show is crap. He did pay by losing the first girl he ever loved, being despised for wanting to save the realm, getting (almost?) killed by his brothers. And there's the loss of practically his whole family.

Which begs the question: are you kidding me?

No, not kidding.

The question was whether there were other characters armoured in plot. I said these two because not once have I been worried they would die. And everything you say Jon has lost Dany has too; the man she loved (Drogo, and she later gave up Daario for her political marriage), she is despised for trying to end slavery, lost her entire family (just because it was before she was born makes no difference; she grew up with a half mad brother, hardly the pampered upbringingbother characters had. Please, dont start the whole didnt lift a finger to save Viserys. That debate is tiresome and Off Topic, not to mention there was nothing she could have done) and was almost killed by poison in Daznak's pit, and later, in the Dothraki Sea, became extremely sick, potentially with the Pale Mare