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Angalin

Small questions v.10079

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O damn, I thought this was a law..

Say, a son wanting to inherit, so he kills his father, instead of waiting for his father to die..

The Baelor/Maekar thing was obviously an accident, which is why that instance wouldn't count.. (I should have specified by saying "killed on purpose", which Maekar did not do)

Well in that case, if someone (most likely another sibling) could prove it and appeal to a higher lord or the king then the kinslaying son would be executed for murder I'm sure. So effectively yes it would remove them from the line.

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Heartsbane:


"The eldest son of Lord Randyll Tarly, Samwell was born heir to rich lands, a strong keep, and a storied two-handed greatsword named Heartsbane, forged of Valyrian steel and passed down from father to son near five hundred years."


Ice:


Catelyn had no love for swords, but she could not deny that Ice had its own beauty. It had been forged in Valyria, before the Doom had come to the old Freehold, when the ironsmiths had worked their metal with spells as well as hammers. Four hundred years old it was, and as sharp as the day it was forged.


Longclaw:


“It is,” the Old Bear told him. “It was my father’s sword, and his father’s before him. The Mormonts have carried it for five centuries."


This seems like a running theme to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the WoIaF excerpt it seems that Dragonstone was established as a Valyrian outpost about 200 years before the Conquest. That, combined with the quotes above, seems to indicate that at least those 3 valyrian steel blades were purchased via the Targaryen outpost.


My question is this: except those three, have we seen an age being mentioned for any of the other Valyrian steel swords?



Edit: Also, a small tidbit - it seems the Doom occured approximately 400 years ago, and Ice is the same age - this would probably mean that it was one of the last VS blades ever forged.


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Heartsbane:

Ice:

Longclaw:

This seems like a running theme to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the WoIaF excerpt it seems that Dragonstone was established as a Valyrian outpost about 200 years before the Conquest. That, combined with the quotes above, seems to indicate that at least those 3 valyrian steel blades were purchased via the Targaryen outpost.

My question is this: except those three, have we seen an age being mentioned for any of the other Valyrian steel swords?

Edit: Also, a small tidbit - it seems the Doom occured approximately 400 years ago, and Ice is the same age - this would probably mean that it was one of the last VS blades ever forged.

I don't think so :(

But it sounds like Ice came into the posession of the Starks shortly before the Doom.. That's a close call :)

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Yes. There is a fair amount of threads devoted to that particular theory in this section of the forum.

You know what would be really funny? If, unlike in Lord of the Rings, all the prophecies in ASoFI proved false. :D

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You know what would be really funny? If, unlike in Lord of the Rings, all the prophecies in ASoFI proved false. :D

It's actually worse that in ASOIAF, prophecies can come true....sometimes. If they always came true or never came true you'd know what to do, but since some of them can be right (Maggy the Frog) and some wrong (The Stallion Who Mounts the World...not) that kind of forces you to take them seriously just in case one turns out to be correct. That completely opens the field to every kook and charlatan out there to become a "prophet."

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It's actually worse that in ASOIAF, prophecies can come true....sometimes. If they always came true or never came true you'd know what to do, but since some of them can be right (Maggy the Frog) and some wrong (The Stallion Who Mounts the World...not) that kind of forces you to take them seriously just in case one turns out to be correct. That completely opens the field to every kook and charlatan out there to become a "prophet."

That's a good point. I was thinking after I posted this morning that having some prophecies come true and others not would actually grant an air of verisimilitude to the world. So far, which prophecies do we know that have come true, and which do we know are false?

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That's a good point. I was thinking after I posted this morning that having some prophecies come true and others not would actually grant an air of verisimilitude to the world. So far, which prophecies do we know that have come true, and which do we know are false?

Some prophecies we know are still "unsolved": we still have no idea who is Prince That Was Promised / Azor Ahai, who is valonqar or what are Dany's three mounts/betrayals. AFAIK, solved ones are:

Maggi's prophecy (at least partially true)

Stallion that Mounts the World (false)

Jojen's dream of Bran's death (averted)

Jon's dream that "sea" will conquer Winterfell (true)

Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy (false, Dany was pregnant is her last ADWD chapter)

some of Patchface's sons are prophectic (he foresaw RW)

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But the child isn't Bronn's. Its rabdom mob rapist #37

First 36 guys must have had slow swimmers.

Does anyone know why they call Varys "The Spider"?

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First 36 guys must have had slow swimmers.

Does anyone know why they call Varys "The Spider"?

Because of the webs he weaves, and the way he sits at the center of all the strings listening for vibrations (rumors) and looking for flies (traitors.)

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@Knight of Winter

Some prophecies we know are still "unsolved": we still have no idea who is Prince That Was Promised / Azor Ahai, who is valonqar or what are Dany's three mounts/betrayals. AFAIK, solved ones are:

Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy (false, Dany was pregnant is her last ADWD chapter)WHERE DO YOU GET THIS?

I read nothing that said she was pregnant, only that she was bleeding.

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Some prophecies we know are still "unsolved": we still have no idea who is Prince That Was Promised / Azor Ahai, who is valonqar or what are Dany's three mounts/betrayals. AFAIK, solved ones are:

Maggi's prophecy (at least partially true)

Stallion that Mounts the World (false)

Jojen's dream of Bran's death (averted)

Jon's dream that "sea" will conquer Winterfell (true)

Mirri Maz Duur's prophecy (false, Dany was pregnant is her last ADWD chapter)

some of Patchface's sons are prophectic (he foresaw RW)

Thank you.

Okay, Maggy's prophecies about Melara came true almost immediately. Her prophecy about Cersei seems to be getting fulfilled with the three children, many bastards, and death of one her children, so far, while she remained alive.

Someone said that Drogo's son was going to be the Stallion, and that didn't come true (at least not his son by Danaerys), but I believe it's an older Dothraki prophecy so it could still come true. Someone has suggested that Drogon is the "son" and so the prophecy could still come true.

I don't recall the dream of Bran's death. How did they avert it?

Here's someone else's take on the prophecy of Mirri Maz, if it's a prophecy at all and not a curse: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79497-mirri-maz-duurs-prophecy-none-literal-meaning/?p=3997850

Also if this is Mirri Maz' prophecy or curse:

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

then it doesn't actually say that she won't get pregnant again.

So it could be that in some ways they're all correct, just as the "not by the and of man" phrase turned out to be correct--not meaning that nobody could slay the Lord of the Nagul, but rather than a hobbit and a woman would slay him.

I confess that I didn't pay much attention to the prophecies when I read the books, which is already three years ago, so I barely remember anything about them. After I read your list I had to start searching to even know what some of them said (and I couldn't find the reference to Bran's death) so I'm just trying to piece them together. I do think that it would be sort of funny if they all proved wrong, since we're sort of conditioned by fantasy literature to believe in the prophecies within the story. :)

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Because of the webs he weaves, and the way he sits at the center of all the strings listening for vibrations (rumors) and looking for flies (traitors.)

Thanks so much. I'm guessing that's from AGoT since that's the only book I haven't read yet.

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Always keep in mind that George says that while he gets inspiration from stories and legends, he won't follow them exactly.


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I read nothing that said she was pregnant, only that she was bleeding.

It's not explicitly stated, but it's general consensus that Dany (in her last POV chapter) accidentally miscarries after eating some berries.

I don't recall the dream of Bran's death. How did they avert it?

It's in one of Bran's ACOK chapters, if I recall correctly. Jojen tells Bran of several of his dreams - including one describing Bran's death and one where sea spills into Winterfell and kills Mikken and Alebelly. After latter comes true in form of Ironborn, Bran realizes Jojen's dreams could be real, heeds his advice and escapes from Winterfell.

I confess that I didn't pay much attention to the prophecies when I read the books, which is already three years ago, so I barely remember anything about them. After I read your list I had to start searching to even know what some of them said (and I couldn't find the reference to Bran's death) so I'm just trying to piece them together. I do think that it would be sort of funny if they all proved wrong, since we're sort of conditioned by fantasy literature to believe in the prophecies within the story. :)

I hope so as well. Book where plot is defined by characters' actions is way more interesting than book were plot is defined by fate.

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It's not explicitly stated, but it's general consensus that Dany (in her last POV chapter) accidentally miscarries after eating some berries.

It's in one of Bran's ACOK chapters, if I recall correctly. Jojen tells Bran of several of his dreams - including one describing Bran's death and one where sea spills into Winterfell and kills Mikken and Alebelly. After latter comes true in form of Ironborn, Bran realizes Jojen's dreams could be real, heeds his advice and escapes from Winterfell.

Either she miscarries, or has her first period in a long time, symbolyzing her fertility.

What Jojen saw was the death of the Bran imposter, not of Bran himself.

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What Jojen saw was the death of the Bran imposter, not of Bran himself.

Yup. Another example of prophecy meaning something different than what characters think it means. Jojen, Bran & co thought it referred to Bran's death, but they were mistaken.

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It's not explicitly stated, but it's general consensus that Dany (in her last POV chapter) accidentally miscarries after eating some berries.

It's in one of Bran's ACOK chapters, if I recall correctly. Jojen tells Bran of several of his dreams - including one describing Bran's death and one where sea spills into Winterfell and kills Mikken and Alebelly. After latter comes true in form of Ironborn, Bran realizes Jojen's dreams could be real, heeds his advice and escapes from Winterfell.

I hope so as well. Book where plot is defined by characters' actions is way more interesting than book were plot is defined by fate.

Well I feel better about not remembering that Danaerys was pregnant. Of course I don't even remember the bleeding after the berries part. I'm thinking of reading the books again since it's been 3 years and I've forgotten so much, but they involved such a long and often depressing slog that I'm not sure I want to do it.

I read on a wiki last night that Bran dreamed about the sea overflowing Winterfell, and I vaguely recall people at Winterfell laughing at him when he tried to warn them, back in those happy days when he could still walk and Sansa could still dream her dreamy little dreams. :D

In Lord of the Rings, the prophecies could be viewed as destiny, or just as someone seeing a possible future. It does seem that everyone with a prophecy has to work really hard to make it come true. :D They can't just lie around in ponds distributing swords and expect the next guy who calls himself the king defeat SAW-ron. :lmao:

Either she miscarries, or has her first period in a long time, symbolyzing her fertility.

What Jojen saw was the death of the Bran imposter, not of Bran himself.

Gosh, I actually remember the Bran impostor. It's a reference to Theon burning two villager kids and letting Bran and Rickon escape in the Hordormobile. Obviously the impostor was not all bran. :lol:

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Hey, it just occurs to me, along with "ser" instead of "sir" and "Eddard" instead of "Edward," why don't we have something like "Robaert" instead of "Robert?" I mean, heck, I have a first cousin named "Robert." What was Robert Baratheon, King of the Village of Skokie? :D



Ooh, speaking of Baratheon, I just noticed that it ends with theon. Is that the origin of the name of Theon Greyjoy?



Speaking of Robert, did anyone see Mark Addy in "Atlantis?" It was very odd because he was listed second in the credits, but he played Hercules (at first a weak and pathetic Hercules, whom the writers sort of revised to make him stronger and better in combat) and oftentimes overshadowed the nominal main character, Jason. I saw it last year on SyFy or BBCA, not realizing that the BBC had already aired it in the UK and canceled it. It was pretty much mediocre, and even though the writers often had Hercules upstage Jason, it really didn't make full use of Mark Addy's talents. It was an odd duck of a show to be sure. It probably did deserve to be canceled, but it was fun to continue to see Mark Addy from week to week. :)


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