Hoo Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 How did the poison get into Joff's cup? Did they ever explain that or is it going to be left to our imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 How did the poison get into Joff's cup? Did they ever explain that or is it going to be left to our imagination? I think we'll never know. Rewatching that episode shows that it was ridiculously difficult for Olenna to do it (even though we know it was her now) when the poison had to go in the cup (during the pie-cutting). I think the director said something like, you won't be able to actually see the poisoning take place, but based on framing and reactions, you should be able to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Next ep - Arya training yay - although I think the Hound is gonna annoy me again. They already moved Arya 13 to episode 1, and RW stuff was last year. (Well part of Arya 13.) If she does not get to Saltpans until E10... then it was all travelogue and a village stay. I suppose they could run into the mountain clans, missing since S1. Almost halfway done, wonder how much shooting time Maisie had last year? Edited April 28, 2014 by boojam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoo Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I think we'll never know. Rewatching that episode shows that it was ridiculously difficult for Olenna to do it (even though we know it was her now) when the poison had to go in the cup (during the pie-cutting). I think the director said something like, you won't be able to actually see the poisoning take place, but based on framing and reactions, you should be able to figure it out. That is not right, because that was an intentional act so someone had to put it in there, and not knowing who was intentionally in on it with QoT is not right. I don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 How did the poison get into Joff's cup? Did they ever explain that or is it going to be left to our imagination? It's odd George has seemingly revealed what we just saw, but then promises or maybe he is teasing , a surprise about the PW to come. Not sure I really care about a surprise now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Melis Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I loved when Rast foreshadowed Hodor being King of the World :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Taxman Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 It's obvious there will be a reunion... R+L= J people... The Reeds kids are there!! Surely they must know something... c'mon D&D grow some balls and drop this bomb now please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaanchanoone Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hi, can someone give me a strictly culinary spoiler for this episode ? Since start of season, I've tried to keep my monday night dinner menu in synch with the episode we watch that night. After Ep. 1's chickens and ep. 2 pigeon pie, I was sadly not at home last week and couldn't cook a rabbit stew...So, tell me please, what's on the menu for ep. 4 ? (apart from iced baby apparently)This is such a great idea! I would totally steal your dinner sync ideas...if only I knew how to cook. [emoji52] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Danford Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 It's strange how so many follow along with the idea that, "Well that storyline is boring/dumb in the books, so it's good the TV show changed it." Really? Adaptions can not and should not ever try to be the visual copies of their literary counterparts, but there are still some things it should try and keep right. Namely not introducing plot that conflicts with canon. Ommitting for the screen/time is one thing.Adapting for the screen/time is one thing. Adding to streamline or clear up something for the screen/time is another thing...but can be justified But Rewriting is something else entirely. There is too much rewriting going on in this series. I have no problem with Arya servinig wine to Tywin, fleshes out both characters, gives an excuse for backstory, streamlines a rather intricate story plot. I get that. It's an addition that wasn't in the books, but it aids the show. Cool, it's very interesting. What they are doing in the North, however, is not just adapting, ommitting, or adding; it's taking material written in the book, setting it aside, and writing radically different and sometimes contradictory scenes. Why does Jon have to know about Bran? Why do the mutineers have ghost? Why does Bran get captured by the mutineers? These are conflicts contrived from thin air to rewrite perfeclty fine plot. They don't adapt book material, add context to a winding plot, simplify story-lines for the screen, or even embelish to spice things up. They are just changes. They can be delightful to watch and look at (which I can respect) but at this point the writers aren't adapting anymore. They're writing fan-fiction. "What if the mutineers were left at Crasters, and Bran stumbled upon them and was captured, but Jon was leading a raiding party to kill the mutineers anyway." That is an interesting "what if." It might make for some interesting implications. But it's Fanfiction. There is no source material that justifies these changes. No precedent, no suggestion. They are just changes. If that is the level of divergence the showrunners are going to take, I guess that is fine, but it is no longer an adaption. The "crime" then is that this TV'd version of the Ice and Fire universe masquerades as an adaption, freely excercises it's ability to re-write, all while toppling over yet unreleased information. It's as if they're using the fact that AOIAF exists as a yet unfinished work to justify co-creating within that world. That is a dangerous thing for an adaption to do, try to do, or flirt with doing. "I am not saying here that the people who write fan fiction are evil or immoral or untrustworthy. The vast majority of them are honest and sincere and passionate about whatever work they chose to base their fictions on, and have only the best of intentions for the original author. But (1) there are always a few, in any group, who are perhaps less wonderful, and (2) this door, once opened, can be very difficult to close again." - George R.R. Martin I know many people here won't agree with me and say I'm being too dramatic and nitpicky. Maybe I am. But I'm legitmatley concerned the door's been flung wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndance Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 They are rape obsessed and the women just take it with no complaints.I'm seriously side eyeing these writers.I totally get people not being comfortable with the rape scenes. It's not something that needs to be shown in excess for sure. In the scenes we 'be seen though, I just don't get why people are so angry about them and spout how unnecessary they are. So you have a group from the nights watch that has just mutinied(sp?). The NW is made up of a lot of criminals. Thieves, RAPISTS, murderers, etc. Pretty terrible humans. They take the black, don't see women again for a very, very long time. They revolt and kill their 'leaders' at Crasters. Now they have a house to themselves full of women. How would you expect this group of rapists, thieves, murderers to act????? Obviously, we know that they're going to do. Rape obsessed is a bit much. They are just thinking logically here. How would think group act in this spot? Well they would probably be doing exactly what we saw. It's pretty logical to include it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Harbors Wrath Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Rapists raping? Seems too far fetched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 And please no Grey Worm/Missandei love connection. Just no. Even the Unsullied are deserving of love! Er, puppies notwithstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cersei the Great Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 My thoughts on the episode... I liked that they made it clear who was responsible for poisoning Joff although I didn't expect it quite so soon. My unsullied DH had previously thought Oberyn had something to do with it. After the show I replayed the scene with QoT playing with Sansa's necklace and showed him where the stone was missing. I did enjoy most of the episode. I was (as a lot of people) thrown for a loop there toward the end. I kept telling DH 'I don't know what is going on, this didn't happen in the book.' lol. It bothered me at first but I don't guess it really matters since Bran & Co. will be back on track eventually. The end was so creepy. I wasn't expecting that at all. Definitely a rewatch. Overall I thought it was a great episode and didn't mind being thrown for a loop. I didn't start reading the books until after the RW was shown so I was unsullied while watching that and the shock from that episode was tremendous. O.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Underfoot Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Rapists raping? Seems too far fetched. I'm really annoyed with this constant response to the valid criticism that the show seems to use rape scenes for sensation. No one here has said " those NW men woldn't rape" They just are annoyed with having to see it on the screen. We saw a guy drinking from Mormont's school while a bruised and battered woman sat next to him. Was anyone at all confused by what these guys were doing? What that ten seconds of "rape them til they're dead" and boobs flapping necessary to the plot? Also, apparently men being raped is something that occurs in this world but for some reason we only see it threatened...wonder why? People can legitimately be annoyed by the fact that with other things that are cut there always seems to be enough time for the rape scenes so maybe for once one of you guys can stop acting like these people are too stupid to understand the world and give a cognizant argument why that scene added something we didn't already know and understand about the show for once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 So what is everyone's thoughts on the scene where Margaery raped Tommen? He's about 12 years old for christ sake. Margaery better be punished next episode for seducing a child for power. How is a kiss on the forehead rape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Danford Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm really annoyed with this constant response to the valid criticism that the show seems to use rape scenes for sensation. No one here has said " those NW men woldn't rape" They just are annoyed with having to see it on the screen. We saw a guy drinking from Mormont's school while a bruised and battered woman sat next to him. Was anyone at all confused by what these guys were doing? What that ten seconds of "rape them til they're dead" and boobs flapping necessary to the plot? Also, apparently men being raped is something that occurs in this world but for some reason we only see it threatened...wonder why? People can legitimately be annoyed by the fact that with other things that are cut there always seems to be enough time for the rape scenes so maybe for once one of you guys can stop acting like these people are too stupid to understand the world and give a cognizant argument why that scene added something we didn't already know and understand about the show for once? it added nothing but the innevitable eye-roll of my girlfriend toward me when I have her watch the episode and the awkward explanation I'll have to give if someone else walks in on it out of context I agree with you. It was clearly implied what was happening, there was no need to see it, and then, there was no reason to see it as clearly and as long as we saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Was that the Great Other? I never envisioned him as a physical being, more a powerful entity like R'hllor... You mean the gentleman with the horns? The horns were the giveaway. He was that poorly misunderstood grey character previously incarnated (well, in-warg-ated) in Coldhands’ hornèd horse. You know, the one in the books that Bran and Sumer and Hodor and the Reed children ate. They all probably got Great Cooties that way, but Bloodraven was taking no chances so gave Bran an extra helping later. This glimpse into the Heart of Winter was done by HBO to show that unlike lesser shows, here there really is no polarized conflict of good and evil going on, just a misunderstood family man up at Ice Henge who wants nothing more than to adopt orphaned waifs so they don’t freeze to death or grow up to have green or brown eyes. This is more obvious in the books, where the True Starks have grey eyes, which tells you a lot about them. Because the actors had so much trouble with contact lenses, and also because TV is a much blunter communications medium, show watchers got to learn about this northern greyness more directly and sooner than book readers. It also ties in nicely with the dragons having horns, because it shows that Ice and Fire are just two sides of the same coin after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joaozinm Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Jon knowing about Bran, missandei and grey worm love. Imagine this... Jon will free bran talk to him and let his little brother walk north in the middle of whitewalkers. where the hell is coldhands? These were the scenes i didnt like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onna Lewyys Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Please tell me: if you found a direwolf (or a very large wolf, for that matter), chained, would your first idea be: "Now, how do I kill this thing?"?. I think not.Um, if I were out in the middle of the wilderness running out of food, I think my first thought would actually be how to kill it and eat it. I've never had wolf myself, but I figure meat is meat in that situation. Because finding a way to cage it safely, waste food feeding it, and hoping it doesn't break free and tear out all their throats makes more sense?Seriously, it bothers me more than anything in the entire episode. It makes no fucking sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of the Dreadfort Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, I'm assuming so as it was so abhorrent... But I cant be bothered going through 36 threads to find out... But I (also) have to express how disgusted I was at the latter half of this episode. Of all the things that have occurred during this show's run, the scene at Craster's Keep has been THE most disturbing... The sounds of the poor girls that had already been raped (by their own father nonetheless) enduring such continued torture... Their poor bloody faces... The absolutely horrifying Karl, drinking from Lord Mormont's skull... Holy sh*t. All I can say is, I would rather the Bastard of Bolton finding those traitors and flaying them, than I would the Bastard of Winterfell finding them and offering them quick deaths.I fear for Meera... I'm surprised they didn't just take her then and there. I'm still reeling in fear. Every week I watch a new episode, I re-watch it maybe three or four times in close scrutiny. This week... I can't bring myself to re-watch the Craster's scene... It's too disturbing...Perhaps someone can remind me of a scene equally bad from previous seasons that I've forgotten in light of this one to help relieve the pain! Edited April 28, 2014 by Bastard of the Dreadfort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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