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[Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion


Ran
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I think this kid is probably going to replace the "Satin" character from the books.

I could see that happening. He's a very different personality than Satin, but he could play the same part. And I could see why it would piss people off if Jon names him his steward.

It would be cool to see him kill Ygritte though, and maybe some other wildlings who killed his family.

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The show is really starting to get into possible future book events. I`m intrigued whether the whole Jon learning about Bran being alive is something that happens in a future book and the show decided to get it out of the way rather then doing it in season 6 or 7. The whole Sansa not being a killer yet, Whitewalker stuff, has me thinking the show is laying down the tracks for future seasons as well.


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Hey all. Just got registered for this forum... I've been waiting to be confirmed and have a lot pent up, so this is a bit long. I went through this whole topic and am surprised I didn't find what I was looking for to be discussed. So new points... and be easy on me, I've only read the books once, so I may have missed a few things.

2) Margaery and Tommen. Along the same lines. Tommen was described as a nice little boy who liked to play with his kittens, and that he got along well with Margary. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she got him those kittens? She was using tactics in the book to appeal to a child... When Cersei wants to know who margaery is f***ing she does all that she can to find out who Marg gets alone with, and she is told that Marg is NEVER alone and always with her friends and girl friends. She wouldn't even believe that it would be Tommen that she was sleeping with. It was never implied that Marg would be sneaking around and having sexual relations with Tommen. SO that could mean, that Marg actually lost her virginity to Tommen and not anyone else, meaning she would win the trial and Cersei had it all wrong (duh). I thought the show pointing into this relationship that is secret even in the book, destroyed that mystery. Cersei will never know "their little secret" until the coming books but we do now. So that mystery untold by Martin is now destroyed. Not surprising again, and I'm not crying over it, but still disappointing that we have to find out from the show before we can read it. I was kind of intrigued at the idea that Marg had lied about being a virgin.

Is anyone else peeved about all this? Changes with the show I can grudgingly accept because they are two separate entities and they can take creative license to condense a complex story. BUT telling us what Martin hasn't told us yet? The things I listed are considerably minor, but it's only just begun. HBO is just getting started with telling us what happens in the next books.

Hi Sansa:

Was a long time lurker here too just started really posting yesterday. Now regarding the theory of Margery trying to win over Tommen with kittens yes, she did give him thee little black kittens. As for the other one I seem to recall that it was Maester Pycelle who hesitantly told Cersei of the Little Queen ordering Moon Tea. Even if she was having relations with her husband he is 8 years old he'd be unable to give her babies unless he is already producing sperm at such a tender age which I doubt. I don't see where any mystery here is being foretold to us. I've read GRMM back and forth several times and don't ever seem to come across anything that would even suggest this occurring. I honestly find that really distasteful and I believe Margery would still be in a bit of trouble in having sex with a child even if said child is her husband. I will admit I am quite curious to know who she is playing around with and what the story is behind that one :)

Also its been told in several interviews that George has told them the end of what is to come, yes they do have to in times take creative license make somethings up as are taking POV and having to create the characters not only from the POV characters point but who they are as well. From anything I've read on the two writers is they love George and his works I do not think they are setting out to destroy it etc. :)

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I like the shots fired across the bow with the Night King reveal. Looks like people planning to stop watching the show when it catches up with the books should consider starting early. This was a pretty big reveal considering the books haven't really explained The Others yet. My guess is Winds of Winter will lay out their back story, and even offer a POV.



I'm a book reader who remembers the Unsullied television watchers worrying about spoilers. For the first time, the tables have flipped. At this point I'm starting to switch over and now like the show more than the books. At least, my favorite is the first trilogy, then the show, then Feast and Dance. We'll see about Winds when it comes out.


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Hi Sansa:

Was a long time lurker here too just started really posting yesterday. Now regarding the theory of Margery trying to win over Tommen with kittens yes, she did give him thee little black kittens. As for the other one I seem to recall that it was Maester Pycelle who hesitantly told Cersei of the Little Queen ordering Moon Tea. Even if she was having relations with her husband he is 8 years old he'd be unable to give her babies unless he is already producing sperm at such a tender age which I doubt. I don't see where any mystery here is being foretold to us. I've read GRMM back and forth several times and don't ever seem to come across anything that would even suggest this occurring. I honestly find that really distasteful and I believe Margery would still be in a bit of trouble in having sex with a child even if said child is her husband. I will admit I am quite curious to know who she is playing around with and what the story is behind that one :)

:)

Pycelle is such a tool and Margaery so sly I bet she hasn't been fooling around with anyone. Re her examination even Cersei knows that isn't reliable. Pycelle if he thought a Lannister would like to hear something he would make something up.

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Pycelle is such a tool and Margaery so sly I bet she hasn't been fooling around with anyone. Re her examination even Cersei knows that isn't reliable. Pycelle if he thought a Lannister would like to hear something he would make something up.

True as well and Cersei would latch on to anything.

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Pycelle is such a tool and Margaery so sly I bet she hasn't been fooling around with anyone. Re her examination even Cersei knows that isn't reliable. Pycelle if he thought a Lannister would like to hear something he would make something up.

Lol, maybe Marg asked Pycelle for the Moon Tea (without really needing it) so that he would tell Cersei, and she would think she had something on Marg. I agree, Pycelle is a tool, so Marg may as well use him.

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Lol, maybe Marg asked Pycelle for the Moon Tea (without really needing it) so that he would tell Cersei, and she would think she had something on Marg. I agree, Pycelle is a tool, so Marg may as well use him.

Yep. If so I hope it doesn't backfire on her.

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After the speculation last week about Bronn maybe deceiving Tyrion I was pleased to see him taking Jaime to task about not going to visit his brother. Bronn isn't squeaky clean but I do think he likes Tyrion enough to want him to survive and for that reason he'll be batting for him even if he's taking someone else's money at some point in the story.

The Jaime / Brienne scenes were great. I don't think it will end up being the big romance others do. Not in the physical sense anyway. But it's nice to see them having meaningful scenes. Wish the Hound had been there commentating when they were discussing what to name the sword.

Will be really pissed if Ghost dies during the upcoming fight at Crasters. Surely one of the direwolves has to live to bite off the face of someone evil and important!

Olenna's remark about throwing herself off the cliff if she makes that walk one more time makes me wonder if it was a throwaway comment or if we'll see her splattered at the bottom of the Kings Landing rockface at some point.

I certainly hope that Bronn isn't deceiving Tyrion, and that somehow Shae will have been smuggled off the boat by one of Cersei's agents. I also want Varys to be genuinely surprised when Shae shows up at the trial. She simply has to be there in the Tower of the Hand after the trial ends badly for Tyrion! As for Olenna, I assume she'll be seen again in TWOW (I can't see her missing Margaery's trial, unless the Ironborn raiding the Reach somehow makes travel unsafe for her), but I doubt she'll end up being thrown from a cliff (she's much smarter than her foolish husband, who rode off a cliff while hunting/hawking!). :D

Ghost isnt going to die, come on.

<snip>

This.

AND WHICH ONE OF YOU WAS A MARKSMAN AT TEN?

http://i.imgur.com/T3ZU8vQ.jpg

'Sup.

Niiiice.

Night's King Best King.

It was the war of the SIX kings, as future maesters forging their Historian chains will recognize. "The Five Kings" were just fighting for second place.

Also: time to start a "______ days until Son Of Potato Man, The Ten Year Old Marksman caps Ygritte" countdown?

39 days and counting then. Ygritte is gonna die on my baby's birthday (he's Unsullied and he'll be so bummed!).

I wonder what they'll do with his character. I could see him shooting wildlings during the battle, but after that? Is he going to survive and what will he do if so?

He needn't necessarily replace Satin (although that's possible), but I suspect he'll be one of those young orphans who comes to CB and will be given the chance to take his vows when he's old enough to do so.

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In a general opinion a good transition episode, probably next episodes will have more action or something, but this was a very good set up in all places treated.

<snip>

  • QoT/Margaery: as we say in Spain "de tal palo tal astilla" (Like father, like son). We do know now where Marge gets form all her seducing knowledge…. <snip>

I just had to let you know how excited seeing this made me. I have been learning Spanish with the Duolingo app, and this phrase is one of the ones that I have been learning. I kind of rolled my eyes when it was first shown, because I wondered if it was something that would really be said by the average person. It is very cool to see that what I have been learning is actually used. It may not seem a big thing, but it really made my day!

Now I return you to your regularly scheduled programming ….

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Locke is a creation of HBO and takes the place of Vargo and the Bloody Mummers. Sending Locke to the Wall to kill Bran and Jon is only in the HBO script. I think the reason is that HBO wants to develop an enemy relationship between Jon and Ramsey early so that Jon's dealings with the Bolton's have more significance to the TV audience. As basically all of ADwD was dedicated to the Winterfell story, it may be one of the most important plots in the whole series.

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Question.

How long ago was the mutiny at Craster's? Because Mormonts head has rotten to a skull, while the heads on the spikes outside( I am assuming are from the NW loyal to Mormont) are still lookin fresh.

I would presume that Karl had the flesh boiled off Mormont's skull. He doesn't strike me as the patient sort.

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well... yeah, it is known...except it's not been confirmed yet.

I love R+L=J disbelievers. The two actors who have been given more detailed insight into how the show will play out are Kit and Emilia...and then they started posting fake wedding pics for Jon and Dany....The truth is in the ToJ. Always was, always will be.

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