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[Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion


Ran
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What's evil about saving a baby? The show's made the Others seem way nicer than the traitorous crows.

Well, they weren't violent, which is an important distinction, but I don't think the veiwer is supposed to be feeling anything but uncomfortable with that scene or idea that human babies are being changed/altered/transformed.

Edited by Justin Danford
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Well, they weren't violent, which is an important distinction, but I don't think the veiwer is supposed to be feeling anything but uncomfortable with that scene or idea that human babies are being changed/altered/transformed.

Changed into nigh unstoppable humanoids with weather-manipulation powers as opposed to freezing to death in some forest as babies. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

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Changed into nigh unstoppable humanoids with weather-manipulation powers as opposed to freezing to death in some forest as babies. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Yeah, if you have no allegiance to the race these nigh unstoppable humanoids are partial to cutting up and using for arts and crafts, sure...but as human viewers I expect most might feel unsettled

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- George RR Martin on Fan-Fiction

Sure, the show isn't actually fan-fiction but . . .

You might want to actually read the quote you just posted.

The entire point is that once you open the door to allow unlicensed fan-fiction you can't shut it on the "perhaps less wonderful" writers who come later.

So, how is permitting a licensed adaptation, with him as a consultant, having told the writers where every arc in the story is going, in any way relevant to that quote?

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Yeah I am sorry but I find it very, very hard to believe that the Others can't be evil having seen that scene. You could not have conveyed them as more menacing and evil. The Nights King was almost vampiric.

Actually, making them look evil even as they were saving a little baby made me think they're going to be a lot more grey. GRRM and D&D have both talked about how much the "ugly/scary-looking = evil" thing in most fantasy annoys them, and what better way to subvert that than to film a scene where the White Walkers are doing something that looks menacing and hideous, but may actually be good when you think about it?

Of course they're clearly not the heroes of the story. For one thing, there aren't any heroes. For another, they weren't just saving the baby; they were saving the baby by turning it into one of them. Whether the parallel is Turkish Janissaries or 20th-century vampires, this is clearly a gift that's self-serving to the giver and not without drawbacks to the recipient.

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Well I dont think he can do anything now tbh the rights have already been sold and GRRM has little control on the storyline of the show.

Pretty sure GRRM leaked that Other info to D&D. Probably was all "hey...btw Craster's kids are a thing. Just saiyan."

Deviating from the books in that Sansa is much more vocal and definite in her distrust of Littlefinger.

Omg. How on earth is that a bad thing! It shows she isnt a complete moron. Sansa calling LF out on his bullshit was amazing.

LOL, the episode in one image:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2eqc7bq.jpg

hue!! Love it!

What's evil about saving a baby? The show's made the Others seem way nicer than the traitorous crows.

It kinda did. I saw it as ol' OtherPants over there taking that baby as doing the kid a favor. Bringing the kid to Head Cheese Other and getting Other'd was like "welp, at least he aint gonna get butchered by Rast and co."

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Locke was sent to the NW as a mole, because the Boltons assume Bran and Rickon would run to Jon for protection, as he is their closest living relative. Which makes total sense, as Maester Luwin told them to do exactly that as he was dying.



Locke is obviously going out of his way to ingratiate himself to Jon (I expected him to be the first volunteer, to be honest) in the hopes that Jon will let slip info about where he's hiding Bran and Rickon, since he assumes that's what Jon's doing. And after all, the NW is willing to shelter orphaned youth, as evidenced by Son Of Potato Farmer Man. Not the case, of course, but Jon is about to unwittingly lead Locke right to Bran, so the plan is accidentally working and even sooner than expected.

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Actually, making them look evil even as they were saving a little baby made me think they're going to be a lot more grey. GRRM and D&D have both talked about how much the "ugly/scary-looking = evil" thing in most fantasy annoys them, and what better way to subvert that than to film a scene where the White Walkers are doing something that looks menacing and hideous, but may actually be good when you think about it?Of course they're clearly not the heroes of the story. For one thing, there aren't any heroes. For another, they weren't just saving the baby; they were saving the baby by turning it into one of them. Whether the parallel is Turkish Janissaries or 20th-century vampires, this is clearly a gift that's self-serving to the giver and not without drawbacks to the recipient.

Ok. Sure they might be gray or whatever but they didn't "save a baby". It was not left out in the cold to die. It was some sort of payment or sacrifice to them.

Edited by The Human Abstract
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