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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

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well, since grrm only does pov, he might have wanted this in the books but couldn't do it.

no baby pov, no other pov (yet)...

What I would give to read an Other POV...

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Even if it was, indeed, rape, it was addressed quite well this episode, and will likely be bought up later on as well.

The relationship between Jaime and Cersei was colder than it has ever been- I bet the events that occurred in the sept played a part in that.

im still shocked that people are bringing this whole rape thing up still. I think the way they showed it was how it happened. Secondly, I think the book and the show has shown that both are cold to eachother even though up to this point they havent been in a ton of scenes together. Cersei isnt exactly a calm kitten. She is also pissed that he got captured and easnt around. That is really the down fall to their relationship. Also, it wasnt rape!

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I can live with this detour in Bran's story. God knows if they didn't do this then there wasn't much left to his story. Once he gets to that cave he's more or less done.



This could work out very nicely. Jon knows that Bran is alive, but I bet they will just narrowly miss each other and we won't get a reunion. Jon and the NW will kick ass and kill the mutineers, the direwolves will get free and kick ass, and Bran's entourage will escape in the mayhem. Bran will make it to the cave by the end of the season, so he'll be where he needs to be.


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well, since grrm only does pov, he might have wanted this in the books but couldn't do it.

no baby pov, no other pov (yet)...

:agree: Thankyou!! exactly what i have been thinking!! which is why it was implied in the books, but not confirmed! He really had no way to write this in without writing an other POV which i dont believe he will ever do, i think we will find out about the others via sam at oldtown!

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I'm more worried about Locke taking Marsh's place. I can see the temptation in placing the Locke character at the Wall to build tension and the Jon/Ramsay rivalry. It does make sense in some ways. But it also completely changes the motivation of WHY Jon's assassination attempt happens. Could this be some of the whitewashing that we're seeing for Tyrion and Dany? That in the show Jon's actions will be less black and white so they need a more villainous person to take action against him? Not writing it off, but I'm not sold on it. Also, it means we may be looking at Locke all the way through season 5.


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:agree: Thankyou!! exactly what i have been thinking!! which is why it was implied in the books, but not confirmed! He really had no way to write this in without writing an other POV which i dont believe he will ever do, i think we will find out about the others via sam at oldtown!

prologue? epilogue?

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Why do people keep calling the shows changes "fan fiction"?

Because they're simpletons. D&D and HBO aren't 'fans.' They own the show. Anything they write is 'show canon'.

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I'm more worried about Locke taking Marsh's place. I can see the temptation in placing the Locke character at the Wall to build tension and the Jon/Ramsay rivalry. It does make sense in some ways. But it also completely changes the motivation of WHY Jon's assassination attempt happens. Could this be some of the whitewashing that we're seeing for Tyrion and Dany? That in the show Jon's actions will be less black and white so they need a more villainous person to take action against him? Not writing it off, but I'm not sold on it. Also, it means we may be looking at Locke all the way through season 5.

Can't see Locke getting out of Craster's alive, he's not going to let Bran just walk away if they actually do meet up. If Locke and the NW do miss them, I couldn't see him hanging around at the Wall on the off chance that Bran might pop up again.

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Someone needs to get Greyworm into a workout program. I'm not saying he has to be big, but the guy doesn't even have muscle tone. The Unsullied slaves are specifically chosen due to their size, strength, and speed. He's just a little, skinny dude.

My wife the nurse noted last year that it was silly to have "unsullied" be great warriors in the first place. Being fully castrated means no testosterone to regulate natural hormone production -- so a castrated man would lose muscle-tone and gain weight (and also develop small breasts, lose body hair, and have a higher-pitch voice).

Basically you become a Varys, not a Grey Worm. Unless there is a steroid program (artificial testosterone) available nobody castrated is going to be lifting a sword and fighting.

Edited by hedgeknight001

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Ok, so I officially am done with bitching about the differences in the book and the show. This last episode did a lot of shit that isn't in the books, but..... I like it. I like the Craster's keep addition, I think that's great, and Locke being a faux NW man now is intruiging. Why is ghost captured? Who knows... It damn sure makes it interesting that's for sure.

I agree. The parts of the show that I found the most riveting were the parts where they differed from the books because I genuinely did not know what was going to happen next. I'm excited about the new plotlines.

Edited by Floop

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Can't see Locke getting out of Craster's alive, he's not going to let Bran just walk away if they actually do meet up. If Locke and the NW do miss them, I couldn't see him hanging around at the Wall on the off chance that Bran might pop up again.

I like your theory. It works better. They can have Alliser play the Marsh part. Could even have Alliser become an ally for part of next season as they seem to see eye to eye. I was thinking Locke would stick around because he said his vows and couldn't get away as easily as he thought he would be able to.

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I'm more worried about Locke taking Marsh's place. I can see the temptation in placing the Locke character at the Wall to build tension and the Jon/Ramsay rivalry. It does make sense in some ways. But it also completely changes the motivation of WHY Jon's assassination attempt happens. Could this be some of the whitewashing that we're seeing for Tyrion and Dany? That in the show Jon's actions will be less black and white so they need a more villainous person to take action against him? Not writing it off, but I'm not sold on it. Also, it means we may be looking at Locke all the way through season 5.

Why are you jumping to this conclusion in the first place? Bowen Marsh is cast on the show. Locke has no reason to want Jon dead, he just wants to find Bran. Sure, Locke could become involved if he's even around next season, but I really don't see how you jumped from Locke befriending Jon for Bran info to Locke orchestrating the assassination attempt on Jon.

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I hope this hasn´t been discussed, otherwise I´ll feel like a fool, but:



Could someone explain to me how the hell did the little baby Craster survive? How come he didn´t freeze to death? I mean, he was lying in snow, covered with one piece of cloth, and then he was riding, presumably for hours, with a creature that is the embodiment of ice.



:dunno:


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Someone needs to get Greyworm into a workout program. I'm not saying he has to be big, but the guy doesn't even have muscle tone. The Unsullied slaves are specifically chosen due to their size, strength, and speed. He's just a little, skinny dude.

When you get your nuts cut off, muscle tone suffers.

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I hope this hasn´t been discussed, otherwise I´ll feel like a fool, but:

Could someone explain to me how the hell did the little baby Craster survive? How come he didn´t freeze to death? I mean, he was lying in snow, covered with one piece of cloth, and then he was riding, presumably for hours, with a creature that is the embodiment of ice.

:dunno:

Magic.

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Book Bran meets with a Liddle on his way to the Wall. The man tells him the Bastard of Bolton is on the roads hunting “wolf skins,” and those that are presumed dead. Some posters to this forum presume that the Liddle's informed other clans of Bran's survival and this may be why the clans joined Stannis to recapture Winterfell and also used the Thenn/Karstark wedding to see if Bran may be at the Wall.



Speculation from information gained from the books has produced the theory of a Northern Conspiracy. This theory is based on Theon’s squire Wex escaping the battle for Winterfell and while hiding saw the presumed dead Stark children escape. Wex later communicated this to Manderly who has systematically secretly informed other Northern Lords that the heirs of Winterfell still live. This reveal may eliminate the search for Rickon and Manderly’s role as well as the clans joining Stannis.

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My wife the nurse noted last year that it was silly to have "unsullied" be great warriors in the first place. Being fully castrated means no testosterone to regulate natural hormone production -- so a castrated man would lose muscle-tone and gain weight (and also develop small breasts, lose one's body hair, and have a higher-pitch voice).

Basically you become a Varys, not a Grey Worm. Unless there is a steroid program (artificial testosterone) available nobody castrated is going to be lifting a sword and fighting.

I believe in the books they were given some sort of drink everyday that hardened them against pain, etc to the point they did not feel pain anymore and it helped them become stronger warriors?

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I'd be pretty surprised if there is no Manderly in the show. He gives us the North remembers, and Frey pie.


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