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[Book Spoilers] EP404 Discussion

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starki

GRRM's recently published novella, The Princess and The Queen, makes it quite clear that

an

uncle and a niece can marry, so why not an aunt and a nephew

?

So Jon & Dany will marry, and their Hand will be

Tyrion

; thus, fulfilling the three-headed dragon prophecy. :D

That proves not disproves ;-)

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That proves not disproves ;-)

Which is why I addressed starki, because I agree with you that there aren't "several major issues" with Jon + Dany. :)

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starki

GRRM's recently published novella, The Princess and The Queen, makes it quite clear that

an

uncle and a niece can marry, so why not an aunt and a nephew

?

So Jon & Dany will marry, and their Hand will be

Tyrion

; thus, fulfilling the three-headed dragon prophecy. :D

The three-headed dragon is probably a single Targaryen with three heads (Jon-Ghost-a dragon) similar to Varamyr Sixskins (Varamyr-3 wolves-shadowcat-snowbear).

The clues point that Dany will die at the Wall/North from childbirth and Tyrion is already infected with greyscale, which will drive him to choose the time of his death, which might be a heroic sacrifice.

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The three-headed dragon is probably a single Targaryen with three heads (Jon-Ghost-a dragon) similar to Varamyr Sixskins (Varamyr-3 wolves-shadowcat-snowbear).

The clues point that Dany will die at the Wall/North from childbirth and Tyrion is already infected with greyscale, which will drive him to choose the time of his death, which might be a heroic sacrifice.

I prefer to put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes and say, "Lalalalala, I can't hear you!" re: Tyrion. :( Of course, I know that GRRM isn't setting us for a happy ending (but I think your theory of Jon as the dragon!), but I prefer to think that Tyrion will be cured ("ice preserves" as Maester Aemon says), and perhaps he won't be the Hand, he'll be the LC if the NW, after Jon's "death" releases him from his vows.

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There were 163 people crucified in the first 10 mins and there wasn't any sign of outrage from the viewers about it.

It happened in the book and fit with the story/character. Anyway it was 326.

Edited by rmholt

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There were 163 people crucified in the first 10 mins and there wasn't any sign of outrage from the viewers about it.

Have you read the twitter recap done by WiC.net? People was like "fuck yeah! Khaleesi justice!". I lol'ed.

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Geez guys,

Rape is bad and all, but you're acting like a bunch of tweensies who've never even had sex before.

You are comfortable with gore, but any sign of rape makes you so sexually uncomfortable. Its actually sad how much of a fuss you make about it. If your kids were watching GoT and you were uncomfortable with them seeing it, that would be understandable.

But at least a good portion of you are grown men and women. There will be rape in this show. A lot of it. You knew this coming into it. You are blowing it so far out of the water. Rape is bad. We know. We're glad you think so too.

Jaime did not "rape" Cersei. No, it wasn't Bella and Edward sparkles flying everywhere sex, but she was consenting.

The Craster's scene was dumb, and most of the Wall stuff is pretty dumb right now. Maybe it would be better if the show just ignored the plight of women in general and kept everything on a man basis. No, not man raping man. Man fighting man. Because you can deal with that.

I partially agree with you about that. And I commented to my friend about that. The show portrays how medieval times were meant to be for women and the reality is that many of them were easy preys of raping every day, specially to bandits and men like those who are sent to the wall. Also, they were property and had few rights (or none). The show portraying it is not different from showing violence, gore and all the political backstabbing that those times were thought to be and it's portrayed in a completely negative light. The show isn't promoting violence, nor raping. Cases of rape haven't increased due to Game of Thrones or anything like it. If anything, serves to put in perspective how women have advanced through times.

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It happened in the book and fit with the story/character. Anyway it was 326.

In the show it was 163, as far as fitting with the story/character its all subjective, who is to say the horrific scenes Grrm

writes are more acceptable than something written by Bryan cogman. My point was that no

one complained about a gratuitous amount of crucifixions.

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In the show it was 163, as far as fitting with the story/character its all subjective, who is to say the horrific scenes Grrm

writes are more acceptable than something written by Bryan cogman. My point was that no

one complained about a gratuitous amount of crucifixions.

How many slave children did the Meereenese crucify? Add to the 163 Dany crucified. Both were shown. Math is hard. Reading is fun.

I also addressed your point.

Edited by rmholt

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How many slave children did the Meereenese crucify? Add to the 163 Dany crucified. Both were shown. Math is hard. Reading is fun.

I also addressed your point.

Impressive Math skills but the slave children weren't crucified in the first 10 mins of the same episode as the infamous rape scene. at crasters

Edited by darksellsword

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Impressive Math skills but the slave children weren't crucified in the first 10 mins of the same episode as the infamous rape scene. at crasters

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the show on general, not the one episode since I didn't see a big outcry in either.

Since we agree, perhaps you could find someone who disagrees.

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I partially agree with you about that. And I commented to my friend about that. The show portrays how medieval times were meant to be for women and the reality is that many of them were easy preys of raping every day, specially to bandits and men like those who are sent to the wall. Also, they were property and had few rights (or none). The show portraying it is not different from showing violence, gore and all the political backstabbing that those times were thought to be and it's portrayed in a completely negative light. The show isn't promoting violence, nor raping. Cases of rape haven't increased due to Game of Thrones or anything like it. If anything, serves to put in perspective how women have advanced through times.

I knew there was a reason why i had a pretty decent opinion of ye. :)

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Name these "several major issues" please!

OK...

1) Jon's a Night's Watch member. He will not be absolved of his duties should he be Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. edit : do we know for sure Lyanna was pregnant with Rhaegar ? There are several theories on Jon's mother...

2) Even If so, unless Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, he's a illegitimate son and heir to... nothing in particular.

3) Robb contemplated making Jon his heir. I still think Jon's fate is tied to Winterfell/North, not the Iron Throne.

4) His last chapter in ADWD , he was getting stabbed repeatedly...it remains to be seen how and if he gets out of that one. Warging into Ghost isn't much good if you don't have a body to get back to.

5) Remember Ned's prayer in ADWD about the "two growing up as brothers and his lady wife forgiving him". That, along with the fact his wolf is also related to the other direwolfs, makes me think Ned is the father.

6) Only in the last published book, ADWD, we got Aemon introduced. You really think anyone else with as much as a speck of Targ blood is coming forward in the final books ?

Edited by starki

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OK...

1) Jon's a Night's Watch member. He will not be absolved of his duties should he be Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. edit : do we know for sure Lyanna was pregnant with Rhaegar ? There are several theories on Jon's mother...

2) Even If so, unless Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, he's a illegitimate son and heir to... nothing in particular.

3) Robb contemplated making Jon his heir. I still think Jon's fate is tied to Winterfell/North, not the Iron Throne.

4) His last chapter in ADWD , he was getting stabbed repeatedly...it remains to be seen how and if he gets out of that one. Warging into Ghost isn't much good if you don't have a body to get back to.

5) Remember Ned's prayer in ADWD about the "two growing up as brothers and his lady wife forgiving him". That, along with the fact his wolf is also related to the other direwolfs, makes me think Ned is the father.

6) Only in the last published book, ADWD, we got Aemon introduced. You really think anyone else with as much as a speck of Targ blood is coming forward in the final books ?

None of what you have listed has any bearing whatsoever on the theory. Everything you have listed indicates that you have trouble envisioning what comes next should the theory be correct...which is different than the theory itself. Hate the theory all you want, but none of the misgivings you presented argue against it in a meaningful way.

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If Jon has died at the wall, then that absolves him of his NW duties, looking at the Oath.


Ned's regret could mean anything.


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2) Even If so, unless Lyanna and Rhaegar were married, he's a illegitimate son and heir to... nothing in particular.

If Jon was illegitimate, then 3 KG would not protect him at ToJ instead of the rightful king Viserys III in Dragonstone.

3) Robb contemplated making Jon his heir. I still think Jon's fate is tied to Winterfell/North, not the Iron Throne.

Robb thought that all his siblings except Sansa were dead. Besides, Jon is not a Snow. He cannot legitimize Jon. Jon has a lot of foreshadowing to be the king.

4) His last chapter in ADWD , he was getting stabbed repeatedly...it remains to be seen how and if he gets out of that one. Warging into Ghost isn't much good if you don't have a body to get back to.

GRRM said Jon is not dead. That means he is wounded and alive, most likely in a coma similar to Bran in AGoT.

5) Remember Ned's prayer in ADWD about the "two growing up as brothers and his lady wife forgiving him". That, along with the fact his wolf is also related to the other direwolfs, makes me think Ned is the father.

I don't think this necessarily implies Ned is the father. Bran also saw Lyanna after this vision, which hints that Lyanna is the mother of Jon. Ghost is different than the other wolves in many ways. He is an outsider.

6) Only in the last published book, ADWD, we got Aemon introduced. You really think anyone else with as much as a speck of Targ blood is coming forward in the final books ?

I thing that is Aegon you are referring to. Jon is already with us right from the beginning. He is a trueborn prince and king as foreshadowed in AGoT.

“Why aren’t you down in the yard?” Arya asked him.

He gave her a half smile. “Bastards are not allowed to damage young princes,” he said. “Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from trueborn swords.”

Since we know that Joffrey is the bastard here, this makes Jon the young prince.

“Kings are a rare sight in the north.”

Robert snorted. “More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!” The king put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended.

King Jon is hiding under the Snow (identity). Also note that the king puts one hand to the wall. This symbolizes Jon going to the Wall.

Edited by Paper Waver

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starki

GRRM's recently published novella, The Princess and The Queen, makes it quite clear that

an

uncle and a niece can marry, so why not an aunt and a nephew

?

So Jon & Dany will marry, and their Hand will be

Tyrion

; thus, fulfilling the three-headed dragon prophecy. :D

We're basing events in WoW and book 7 based on a prequel story ?

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