Butterfly effect: Now Jon knows... (Huge Spoilers)

[~DarkHorse~]

What is the point in having Jon know Bran is alive?

Because it was stupid of Sam not to tell Jon and it makes no sense? If that was the case then they would've just had Bran tell Sam not to tell Jon in Season 3.

I don't think they would have changed this just for the sake of it. They've made it clear that Jon knows Bran is alive one episode before the attack on Crasters and empathised that Bran and Jon are brothers throughout the episode-

"They have my brother's wolf! They have Ghost!"

"Jon Snow's brother" "And I though this day would be boring." (or something like that) They have leverage against Jon when he attacks...perhaps? Bran might escape but I'm sure they'll probably inform Jon about Bran.

I think they're setting things up for a brief interaction with Jon and Bran. Having a near miss again is just repetitive and frustrating. There are ways they can work around Bran getting away from Jon without his consent to go North. The damage has already been done with Jon knowing Bran is alive so what harm will a brief interaction do?

[Mr. Sven]

This episode did lay the foundations for a possible Bran/Jon interaction-

• Karl (mutineer leader) being aware Bran is Jon Snows little brother.
• The line drop from Jon about Bran being alive and North of the Wall. Surely, that holds some relevance?

It looks like things are being set up for the mutineers to use Bran against Jon. :dunno:

Add assassin wannabe Locke into the mix and 2 gigantic caged wolves and we have some chaos in store. I haven't anticipated seeing a GoT scene this much in awhile...well, since the Purple wedding...But this sounds really good and for once the North storyline is taking the spotlight. I don't get what all the fuss is about?

I really doubt they'll meet. I think that we'll probably see coldhands save them, and then one of the mutineers alive when Jon gets their tells him that some undead guy killed everyone and took his brother. That way Jon thinks Bran is dead.

If they do I really can't see how the conversation will go. Hey Jon I can't go back with you because my friend here dreams the future and says I need to go north?

[~DarkHorse~]

I really doubt they'll meet. I think that we'll probably see coldhands save them, and then one of the mutineers alive when Jon gets their tells him that some undead guy killed everyone and took his brother. That way Jon thinks Bran is dead.

If they do I really can't see how the conversation will go. Hey Jon I can't go back with you because my friend here dreams the future and says I need to go north?

Even if Jon refuses letting Bran go North they will probably manage to sneak away amongst all the chaos, when Jon is distracted fighting the Mutineers.

Remember, it's going to be a war zone so Jon will probably want Bran out of there as soon as possible but won't be able to do it himself. He might just shout "Get out of here!" and free Hodor, telling him to take Bran back to Castle Black...but Bran won't do that (he might just pretend to) and there is nothing Jon can do because he is too busy fighting the traitors.

I though a writer confirmed that Coldhands won't be in the show?

[Ser Theodan the True]

I'm still convinced that Mark Gatiss, who was cast as the Braavosi banker, is actually Coldhands. First, he has a creepy kind of look thats perfect for the part. Second, it's been well established on the show that people from Braavos have thick accents and a distinct ethnicity (See Sirio Florel and the Titan's Bastard) that is very different from a pasty british guy. Third, it's unlikely that HBO would reveal such a spoilerific cast title such as Coldhands (implying he's dead) that is much more plot revealing than perhaps someone like Oberyn, which is just another character from another house. That being said I also remember someone on the inside of production saying that Coldhands had been written out of the show for budget reasons (he's just a dude folks, lose the elkif you must!).

[jarl the climber]

Even if Jon refuses letting Bran go North they will probably manage to sneak away amongst all the chaos, when Jon is distracted fighting the Mutineers.

Remember, it's going to be a war zone so Jon will probably want Bran out of there as soon as possible but won't be able to do it himself. He might just shout "Get out of here!" and free Hodor, telling him to take Bran back to Castle Black...but Bran won't do that (he might just pretend to) and there is nothing Jon can do because he is too busy fighting the traitors.

I though a writer confirmed that Coldhands won't be in the show?

You know its funny, casual fans, who I know, who do not read the books are excited that Bran and Jon might hook back up. One even think its possible that these White Walkers lured him North of the Wall somehow and that there is no 3 eyed raven. This guy figures since Jojen and Bran came so close to dying that these creatures were able to send them visions and manipulate them, the idea came to him when Jojen had his seizure, that Osha was right and Bran should have listened to her since she was born beyond the Wall and knew more about this stuff. She did seem spot on about the comet.

[Rhaenys Reborn]

I think they're setting things up for a brief interaction with Jon and Bran. Having a near miss again is just repetitive and frustrating. There are ways they can work around Bran getting away from Jon without his consent to go North. The damage has already been done with Jon knowing Bran is alive so what harm will a brief interaction do?

Do we even know what the damage really is? I mean, why is it so important for book Jon not to know about Bran? I know it was probably explained somewhere, just can't recall right now and reading the book it was kinda frustrating when you had Sam think about Bran and want to tell Jon about Bran, but for some reason he couldn't.

I actually don't mind it, even if there's an interaction. It might turn out to have a butterfly effect, sure, but I remeber when I read the book I was constantly like "gaaah" at the thought these two were so close to each other, but never met.

[Mr. Sven]

Even if Jon refuses letting Bran go North they will probably manage to sneak away amongst all the chaos, when Jon is distracted fighting the Mutineers.

Remember, it's going to be a war zone so Jon will probably want Bran out of there as soon as possible but won't be able to do it himself. He might just shout "Get out of here!" and free Hodor, telling him to take Bran back to Castle Black...but Bran won't do that (he might just pretend to) and there is nothing Jon can do because he is too busy fighting the traitors.

I though a writer confirmed that Coldhands won't be in the show?

Did they? Thats kind of disappointing.

[Ser Theodan the True]

Jon would have no knowledge about what happened at Winterfell because he was north of the wall in season 2. Therefore in the show he must have found out about the sacking and about Bran being alive in the same story and thus making it less impactful. Really dissappointed we didn't see any of these revelations, the other notable one being the Red Wedding, being told to Jon. These types of emotional moments sell the entire story for me so I'm pretty pissed it got bumped for some more Thorny-Slynt bonding.

Final note: I think Locke is going to be a sleepercell that won't be activated until they get to the NW mutiny. It makes more sense for the show to go this route because they havent introduced Bowen Marsh and it would be more resonating to the audience to have Jon caught in a web of deceit similar to Robb rather than a straight up mutiny.

[~DarkHorse~]

Do we even know what the damage really is? I mean, why is it so important for book Jon not to know about Bran? I know it was probably explained somewhere, just can't recall right now and reading the book it was kinda frustrating when you had Sam think about Bran and want to tell Jon about Bran, but for some reason he couldn't.

I actually don't mind it, even if there's an interaction. It might turn out to have a butterfly effect, sure, but I remeber when I read the book I was constantly like "gaaah" at the thought these two were so close to each other, but never met.

I think people are just worried about the legitimacy issues it creates for Jon- he knows Bran and Rickon are alive so he can't take Winterfell from them. However, in the books he says No to Stannis offering him Winterfell anyway and Robb's Will never happened on the show so I don't get what the big fuss is about? Nothing will change drastically.

I actually think this could work out better-

Stannis offers Jon Winterfell and Jon says no, telling him about Rickon being alive. Stannis then sends Davos after Rickon as opposed to Manderly giving him the task. Davos then searches for Rickon at White Harbor (we still get 'The North Remembers' speech) and Manderly points him towards Skagos. Simple.

Jon and Stannis look pretty decent in the whole thing. Actually, Stannis is looking like a saint! :bowdown:

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

Nah they'll keep that in I'd say, they've already reminded us of where Slynt came from and established that Thorne isn't liked by the men which sets Slynt up to be the compromise candidate to oppose Jon which leads into that quote.

Yea I still tend to believe they'll wait to elect Jon LC, but IF they did it beforehand, there's no way Stannis could say that line.

It would go along with the 'raid the pantry' line, which was perfectly in line with the sardonic humour of Stannis.

Yea I must admit the 'raid the pantry' line was one of the few times show!Stannis has displayed his humor.

[FNF]

I think the Manderleys will still be in, in some form or another. There were numerous mentions of Whiteharbour in S03, and the Manderleys were the only other House at the Red Wedding besides the Boltons and Freys.

My pet theory is that Ser Too-Fat-To-Sit-a-Horse (GRRM) will show up at Winterfell with the Frey Pies but we won't get any prior introduction. Maybe a Frey at the Wedding will mention the three missing Freys supposed to arrive with Wyman as well.

[King Zee]

I think there must an interaction between Bran and Jon. The tv audience is getting restive. reaffirming the stark family bond will be a good thing.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

I think there must an interaction between Bran and Jon. The tv audience is getting restive. reaffirming the stark family bond will be a good thing.

Also, fuck the narrowly missing each other scenario, AGAIN.

They did it once, Twice, NO

Then again, i dont really care. Keep the Fanfic coming(If its indeed fanfic) Last night was my first time not knowing what i watching. I loved it

[sifth]

Well I've read all of the books nearly 4 times, and I'm actually excited at the possibility of the brothers meeting. I'm said on the last page how I always felt Sam not telling Jon was one of the worst things George wrote into his story and seems to be he did simply for plot convenience. You know to have Jon sad that he's possibly the only member of his family still alive.

I don't really see how this ruins anything. I mean it was annoying how close to each other they were in the book. Though GRRM likes to pull this move quite often in his novels I've noticed.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Jojen - no greensight about this, bro?

I seriously cracked up at this! :D

You are absolutely right though. Jon knowing Bran is dead is MASSIVE. I'm concerned about where this will lead and if it will end up in the same place as the book. I hope so.

[~DarkHorse~]

Also, fuck the narrowly missing each other scenario, AGAIN.

They did it once, Twice, NO

Yep, they sure love throwing the 'almost Stark reunions' around.

Jon/Robb- Jon almost leaving to join Robb in season 1.

Arya/Robb/Catelyn- Red Wedding

Bran/Jon- Also in the RW episode and very frustrating!

Sansa/running away with Hound during Blackwater...could have been reunited with Arya on their travels.

Then this season we have- Arya/Sana/Hound reuniting at the Errie which my unsullied friend is excited about...I don't want to burst her bubble.

AND now another Bran/Jon near miss. :bang:

[sifth]

Yep, they sure love throwing the 'almost Stark reunions' around.

Jon/Robb- Jon almost leaving to join Robb in season 1.

Arya/Robb/Catelyn- Red Wedding

Bran/Jon- Also in the RW episode and very frustrating!

Sansa/running away with Hound during Blackwater...could have been reunited with Arya on their travels.

Then this season we have- Arya/Sana/Hound reuniting at the Errie which my unsullied friend is excited about...I don't want to burst her bubble.

AND now another Bran/Jon near miss. :bang:

It'll get even worse once we get to the stuff from A Dance with Dragons, lol

[The Lizard King]

Final note: I think Locke is going to be a sleepercell that won't be activated until they get to the NW mutiny. It makes more sense for the show to go this route because they havent introduced Bowen Marsh and it would be more resonating to the audience to have Jon caught in a web of deceit similar to Robb rather than a straight up mutiny.

Yes they have:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Bowen_Marsh

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

I'm not sure what Lockes background is supposed to be. You figure Jon could tell that he was northerner. I'm not sure what happens with him, maybe he sees a White Walker and shits his pants. It would sort of be interesting if Jon won him over to an extent, if Locke saw him as someone who Roose needed to command the Wall and that knocking him off could really rock the boat and have dire consequences. Probably it won't pan out that way,

Here's the weird thing: when talking with Jon at CB after the sword practice, Locke claimed he was a "game warden" from the Stormlands, caught for poaching a pheasant for his starving family. But, surely, Locke does look/dress like a Northerner and has a Northerner accent.

Also, why is Locke there by himself? Couldn't Bolton have simply matched right to The Wall and demanded that any Stark refugees be turned over to him, since he is now Warden of the North? Why the subterfuge?

Having Jon now know about Bran isn't necessarily ruinous to the plot -- even if the plot was to go so far as to have the two actually meet, Bran can insist, as he has been doing, that he needs to go to the far north and that Jon must treat Bran as dead/lost so as to dissuade other bounty hunters.

Regardless, Bran effectively isn't a Stark any longer as he has accepted a higher calling than regaining his family's interests.

[Seneti]

Stannis - Jon plot line offering him to be Jon Stark likely ruined....

Or heavy changed.

He would now know he cant accept cause it is his brothers lordship. And if Bran is alive, Rickon is likely to be.

I dont see how Jon is having a conflict at all. Either Stannis offer wont happen, or wont be so hard for Jon.

Also, Jon is now in the "Theon didnt do it" camp. If book Jon buddie with Stannis had this info he would likely share it with Stann.

By the way I predict no farya, and a Battle of Ice for Rickon. What do you think of it?

I think Stannis' offer will still happen and Jon's reasons haven't changed, except that now it's not Sansa he'd be stealing the title from, but Bran and Rickon.

As for fArya and Battle of Ice for Rickon, it's too early to tell.

man so much whining. "Its ruined!"

No it isnt. and unlike you D&D know the ending.

This.

Bran has to have something to do. Jon has to have something to do. Combine their needs and boom - plot, conflict. Nothing changes the story. Jon's not deserting just to save Bran. Chances are he'll reach Craster's just as Bran is leaving, they'll glimpse each other and do some cheesy half-smile and go their separate ways.

I just don't like how Ghost is caged? How long has it been in show time? Has someone been feeding him, walking him? :lol:

Agreed on Bran's story. As for Ghost: he probably got caught in a similar trap as the one that caught Summer and I think Karl actually threw a piece of meat at Rast and told him to "feed the beast".

It changes the scene as you know it. The scene hasn't even happened yet and you're already devastated.

So much of this.

Even in the books, Jon's escape from the wildlings was aided by Summer and in ADWD, in Jon's wolf dream Ghost senses that Summer is north of the Wall. Jon has always known that Bran is alive and kept that secret secret, for good reason.

And this.

It seems like a really long ride from Craster's to wherever one would expect the HQ of the White Walkers to be. Presumably its in the Lands of Always Winter, hundreds of miles from Craster's, across a forbidding mountain range. Even if we stipulate the WW have magic "don't get frostbite" powers with their affinity to cold, a baby would die of dehydration and starvation before reaching it. Unless WWs can also nurse newborns...

Ewww... thank you, nightmare fuel station attendant. I think I'll need a 1-hour loop of Ser Pounce to get over that *shudder*