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(BEWARE SPOILERS) Book Lovers beware this episode was better than we expected


rocksniffer

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people should realise too that the tv show chronology is approaching a feast for crows now which we all know would not suit tv due to it's meandering pace. large changes are not just a good idea, they are a necessity.


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ill just post this here as well:



You FOOLS! You don't see it?



There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.



HE'S TRYING TO GET TO WINTERFELL, AND THAT STUPID WALL KEEPS BLOCKING THEM! TEAR IT DOWN!



Seriously, what lurks in the depths of Winterfell? The last piece of the puzzle, is what's down there.



n00bs.




The female Other, is down there. Locked, or buried. The Night's King is trying to get there :)



Watch me be right, just watch. Seriously, watch that actually fucking happen. The Night's King's female Other is locked in the crypts of Winterfell, by some form of magick. He's been trying to get there forever.



Why are the walls in winterfell always so warm? Well, it could be a hotsprings theory, or whatever.



Or...



It's that female Other, absorbing all the cold, trying to empower herself to break the fuck out of those crypts and reunite with The Night's King.




Ice Dragon my ass. It's the FEMALE OTHER! BUY INTO IT! DO IT


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I think a lot of the criticism towards this episode stems from book readers not being able to cope with change. Somebody earlier said that Jon going to Craster's and Bran being at Craster's was a mess. It's not a mess, it's called a story. It's not convoluted at all and everything makes sense. The mutineers at Craster's were completely forgotten about in the books, Jon wanting to deal with them makes sense. Bran hearing a baby in the woods and wanting to investigate makes sense. The mutineers being total douchebags makes sense, they're criminals sent to the wall that betrayed their Lord Commander. This adds more danger and excitement to Bran's story, since he doesn't do much for a good long while and even by the end of A Dance With Dragons he hasn't done much. Jon doesn't do much either, right now he's basically just waiting for Stannis. Granted Ygritte and company's attack on Castle Black has yet to happen, but you know it's coming.

As for the White Walker at the end, we all knew the show was going to go past the books. The show is slated for 7 seasons, that's three and a half more after next week to cover the rest of A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance With Dragons, The Winds of Winter, and the final book. Things are going to get condensed, fat is going to get trimmed, and winter is likely going to come a little quicker. You can't honestly expect the show to put itself on hold to wait for GRRM to take another 10 years to finish the series.

You nailed it my friend :bowdown:

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Honestly though, i truly feel i enjoyed the majority of the changes theyve done, and for the most part ive been able to spot and catch them as they happen. the only change im not satisfied with, is the exclusion of Coldhands, and we dont even know if that is definite (i can still see him rescuing Bran/co. from ex-nights watch rebels and continuing journey to bloodraven).


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so there's no point in the sex scenes in the tv show? what about the books? would you do away with all them as well?

It's not about doing away with them. It's about moving the story forward. If the story calls for it, like Theon getting his little Theon chopped off; finding out siblings are banging; Dany being the dominant one in bed with Drogo; Jon losing his virginity, etc. That all adds to the story. They ad to the characters. It's the 95% other crap that doesn't.

Martin has free reign when it comes to writing his books. He can spend as much time as he likes with his perverted fantasies. Whereas the showrunners have less than 10 hrs a season to tell a story that's already crammed with enough characters as it is & they add as many, if not more than they kill off.

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ill just post this here as well:

You FOOLS! You don't see it?

There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

HE'S TRYING TO GET TO WINTERFELL, AND THAT STUPID WALL KEEPS BLOCKING THEM! TEAR IT DOWN!

Seriously, what lurks in the depths of Winterfell? The last piece of the puzzle, is what's down there.

n00bs.

The female Other, is down there. Locked, or buried. The Night's King is trying to get there :)

Watch me be right, just watch. Seriously, watch that actually fucking happen. The Night's King's female Other is locked in the crypts of Winterfell, by some form of magick. He's been trying to get there forever.

Why are the walls in winterfell always so warm? Well, it could be a hotsprings theory, or whatever.

Or...

It's that female Other, absorbing all the cold, trying to empower herself to break the fuck out of those crypts and reunite with The Night's King.

Ice Dragon my ass. It's the FEMALE OTHER! BUY INTO IT! DO IT

Now that's a theory I could dig! :D

About the episode:

For once I really loved the changes. I always found that frustrating that Sam didn't tell Jon about Bran or that Bran and Jon were so close but didn't meet.

Now I am scared what these changes might do to the rest of the story, but as standalone scenes they were pretty great.

We all know book Bran's journey in the north is quite boring until he meets CotF. It's just got more interesting.

I still think Bran and co. will never be found by Jon and co., because that would spread some serious mess over the upcoming Stannis storyline, though.

Absolutely loved that we got to get a glimpse at things absent in the books. I loved it how deep north the show has taken us. I effin loved that White Walker turning the baby into a baby White Walker.

I love the books and I usually cringe at the changes, but that episode was a winner. Excellent.

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Whenever the episode focused on Jaime, I was enjoying it. I didn't need that tWoW/aDoS-spoiler.

Early in the episode, Sam said something to Jon about Bran. I yelled, "WTF?! Sam made a promise in the book not to tell anyone that Bran was still alive." Now I'm worried about how this will change everything in the North. All of the battles, etc - including Roose's claim to the North is that all of the Starks are dead.

Roose's claim stems from Tywin making him Warden of the North and demotion of the House Stark by the Lannisters after the death of King Robb. Technically, Bran is King in the North, but he isn't actively taking part in the liberation movement so the movement is still squashed.

And as others say: the Watch takes no part, until the Bastard Letter..

I'm not pleased with the fact that it seems the TV show just spoiled the unreleased book. With Martins comments about going deeper into the North than we ever have before in TWOW, I imagine we find out where Crasters sons go, or what happens to them...welp, now I already know.

The show is good. The books are better. If that is a spoler I may have to stop watching the show. I love the show but I can't have an altered adapation ruin a story that's been in the making for twenty years.

I agree. I've never downloaded a GoT-episode. I honestly didn't know about it when the show came on, saw the first episode in a college course. Liked it, bought the first season dvd-box and when I finished that, the second season came out on dvd. I started reading the books, waited a year and bought the season 3 dvd-box. Now there's a HBO-discount special for 4 months half price, so I'm on with that. You can't retake the offer if you've had it less then a year ago and I'm not willing to pay full price. Meaning that I'll have to wait two years until the season 5 dvd box comes out. By that time, my patience will have grown thin, but tWoW will have come out.

Bran at Crasters is a good arc that I don't mind but goddamnit that Others spoiler.

Completely agree. The Bran plot doesn't really change anything, aside from Coldhands taking care of the rogue mutineers, if Bran and Jon don't meet up. And it explains why Ghost took so long to get to Castle Black. Who knows, the mutineers may scatter after Bran wargs into Hodor and breaks free. Then they may meet with CH's and they have that moment in which Bran realizes that CH's has picked off the remaining mutineers (seeing their corpses through summer).

The last scene was an unnessary addition. I really loathe it.

I didn't dislike the episode, but after every week I start to feel more and more like a book snob. I don't like that feeling since almost everyone I know are show only, so I just hope the payoff works out well enough with the story. Here's to hoping.

I feel the same, I really loved the simple changes they made to Jaime's/Brienne's/Pod's storyline this week. Everything Jaime this week was spot on, even if it didn't correlate with the books.

No. IN the books, Coldhands only kills wrights to rescue Sam and then when they are attackd just as they get to Bloodraven’s cave. There is not “Showdown at Crasters.” Not that that would have made it better; had the scene been in the books I’d have also thought it contrived.

No. IN the books, Coldhands deals with "foes" he refuses to name and goes looking for food while the Reeds, Bran and Hodor are shivering in a hut somewhere near a lake. Bran wargs into Summer and finds dead Night's Watch bodies, eats that, and that's when Coldhand's returns with 'meat' of dubious origin himself..

It's because there's no point to it. That's why it's called "gratuitous". And the fact that I'm a grown ass man who has seen a p**** or 2 in his life, I'm looking for something more with my dramas like... moving the story forward, as well as developing 1 of the 100 characters this show has brought into the fold rather than staring at boobies & wieners every episode. If I wanted that... I'd pop in a porno, which has more of a point than GoT sex scenes.... G'dammit!

You didn't answer the question.. It's "gratuitous" in the books as well. So apparently, despite your claim of being a grown ass man, you have an issue with visual sex, but not written sex, while both are gratuitous. You don't want gratuitous sex, just say so. Go read 50Shades of Grey or whatever..

I've got two points to make in regardes to the common criticisms I'm seeing in this thread.

  1. Sam broke his promise to Bran and told Jon he is alive!
    Sam never made a promise to Bran in the show, in the books he made his promise to Coldhands and Coldhands isn't in the show. Not yet at least. Nobody ever asked Sam to keep it a secret so there is no reason to expect him to not tell Jon that his younger brother, whom is believed dead, is in fact alive.

    This doesn't mean Roose is going to find out. You guys are saying that because Jon knows Bran is alive Roose's claim to the North is lessened and Stannis' Jon Stark plan is pointless? Why would either Jon or Sam tell Roose that Bran is alive? And Stannis' plan was turned down anyways. I doubt Jon will be sending ravens across Westeros to let everyone know that "my crippled little brother is on the other side of the wall, so please don't try to steal Winterfell." That's ludacris and nobody would believe it. Besides, the Watch takes no part.

    There is nothing important in the books regarding Jon not knowing about Bran.
  2. They made the Wildlings evil!
    I'm going to preface my point by saying that the cannibalism thing is quite cheesy and I don't like it. However, you're still incorrect. The Wildlings weren't made to be bad guys at all, the Thenn's were never good guys anyways. They aren't free folk, the Thenns are organized and ruthless. Tormen wasn't made evil, he clearly doesn't like the nasty shit Thenns do and neither does Ygritte. Rattleshirt is an ass in the show, but he is one in the books. And Mance wasn't made very evil either. This complaint just confuses me.

I think a lot of the criticism towards this episode stems from book readers not being able to cope with change. Somebody earlier said that Jon going to Craster's and Bran being at Craster's was a mess. It's not a mess, it's called a story. It's not convoluted at all and everything makes sense. The mutineers at Craster's were completely forgotten about in the books, Jon wanting to deal with them makes sense. Bran hearing a baby in the woods and wanting to investigate makes sense. The mutineers being total douchebags makes sense, they're criminals sent to the wall that betrayed their Lord Commander. This adds more danger and excitement to Bran's story, since he doesn't do much for a good long while and even by the end of A Dance With Dragons he hasn't done much. Jon doesn't do much either, right now he's basically just waiting for Stannis. Granted Ygritte and company's attack on Castle Black has yet to happen, but you know it's coming.

As for the White Walker at the end, we all knew the show was going to go past the books. The show is slated for 7 seasons, that's three and a half more after next week to cover the rest of A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance With Dragons, The Winds of Winter, and the final book. Things are going to get condensed, fat is going to get trimmed, and winter is likely going to come a little quicker. You can't honestly expect the show to put itself on hold to wait for GRRM to take another 10 years to finish the series.

I'm sorry, but with the rate their going through aSoSp2, it is clear that they are fully able to condense whatever storylines of Feast/Dance in season 5. Leaving whatever comes in Winds and Dream for S6/7. There was no need at all to bring in the Night's King of all things at this point in time.. They're covering the stuff from book 3 and parts of 4/5. There's no need to jump from a scene that happened in Book 3, to a scene that has direct relevance to Book 6. The gap they're jumping is far, far too wide and it will only make the storylines more disjointed then they already are..

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I think a lot of the criticism towards this episode stems from book readers not being able to cope with change. Somebody earlier said that Jon going to Craster's and Bran being at Craster's was a mess. It's not a mess, it's called a story. It's not convoluted at all and everything makes sense. The mutineers at Craster's were completely forgotten about in the books, Jon wanting to deal with them makes sense. Bran hearing a baby in the woods and wanting to investigate makes sense. The mutineers being total douchebags makes sense, they're criminals sent to the wall that betrayed their Lord Commander. This adds more danger and excitement to Bran's story, since he doesn't do much for a good long while and even by the end of A Dance With Dragons he hasn't done much. Jon doesn't do much either, right now he's basically just waiting for Stannis. Granted Ygritte and company's attack on Castle Black has yet to happen, but you know it's coming.

As for the White Walker at the end, we all knew the show was going to go past the books. The show is slated for 7 seasons, that's three and a half more after next week to cover the rest of A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance With Dragons, The Winds of Winter, and the final book. Things are going to get condensed, fat is going to get trimmed, and winter is likely going to come a little quicker. You can't honestly expect the show to put itself on hold to wait for GRRM to take another 10 years to finish the series.

No.

Plenty of changes from the book have been worthwhile; its when the changes are dead or convoluted that draws ire. Yeah, sure, some people are just the Ultra-purists and you can't satisfy them; they want a 50 hour season with a virtually unlimited budget.

My complaint is when the story is overrun by contrivance. Here its having Bran end up at this place that ... just so happens to be where Jon wanted the NW to attack? Quelle Suprise! And it just so happens that Bran was... right there....

And that Ghost is there. Why? How'd they catch him? For what purpose? Any idea? Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?

It makes no sense. It only makes sense if the GOAL was to get everyone there because... well.. you are paying these people anyway and you need to put SOMETHING on that screen. So ... you sort of contrive to put all these pieces together. And for me, that's pedestrian, low-level story-telling that I would expect out of, say, the last two seasons of BS:G or Lost.

Now I agree and I am with you on the deserters being a bunch of horrible people who do horrible things. I think that showing the depravity that can be let-loose when the rules no longer apply; when laws, even customs, are tossed aside in favor of the pure anarchy of "Strongest Man Makes the Rules" can create a type of barbarism and chaos. That I thought was fine. IN fact, I think it set the right tone: the realms of man needs to defend itself not only from Others and WW but from the type of anarchy.

But why involve Bran, OTHER THAN because ... well... you gotta do something with him....

Its forced. Contrived, ham-fisted story-telling. Its lazy and lacks depth, prospective and creativity. It turned a complex story into a story that relies on "Well... who's in the general area..." Its something I would expect from a network show.

But other than that, it was fine...

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I think we need to keep in mind, that there are things that develop in the tv series, that are organic and require adjustments. By that I mean some of the brilliant performances by the actors, that bring depth and interest to these characters that just didn't happen in the book. Brans arc, at least for the show, definitely needed to be altered a bit in order to make it more interesting for the tv screen. I'm looking for some of the same for Arya and Jon. Then there are other unexpected performances that have become fan "pets". Bronn, Davos, GREY WORM, Pod, the Hound Little Finger, Varys.

As for the last scene of this episode, I'm not feeling all butt hurt, like some are, I guess because as far as the Others and the land of always winter, we HAVE had information about this, through different stories so, that, we have had a clue about, and this scene at the end, is just a visual and it still leaves a TON of questions. The TV only people dont have nearly as much of a clue about that last scene as we readers do. All my friends that know I've read the books blew up my phone wanting clues......

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I agree, this was a really good episode. I was gaping at the ending, but honestly I like it when the show keeps me guessing when I think I know what's going to happen. The WW scene was NOT a spoiler in my opinion. This is nothing that has not been hinted at in the books. The show just has a way of hitting us upside the head with it is all.



I also am fine with Jon snow going after the mutineers at Craster's. And I don't see Sam telling Jon about Bran as being all that altering either. I don't think he swore anything to Bran on the show, just the books. I also don't think they will meet. It seems more likely that they will just miss each other. Perhaps Coldhands will finally make an entrance? Whatever happens, we'll anticipate a meeting and be afraid of Locke getting his grubby hands on Bran, but it won't quite happen.



As for Ghost, I have no idea how they caught him and it did come out of nowhere, but I'm interested to see who's throat he tears out when he gets free.


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As someone who first picked up A Game of Thrones in 1999 and has been anxiously looking forward to seeing A Song of Ice and Fire brought to television since the first rumors of HBO and George RR Martin talking, I didn't hate it. I completely understand why they made the changes with Bran as he needs something to do and I like having Jon go after the mutineers (thought those arrow wounds must have been pretty superficial). I don't know how I feel about Jon and Bran meeting though I know it will be bittersweet. I did not like Sam telling Jon about Bran.



I think I have an inkling as to what they're doing with Locke. I can see him volunteering to accompany Bran after they part ways and Jon heads back to the Wall and then somehow getting information about Rickon before deciding to let Bran go. He'll figure why kill the kid when he seems set on getting himself killed. I only say that because I'd like to see Rickon and Osha back sooner than... whenever.



And of the course the end... I still don't know what to make of that. Except it brought a feeling out full force, an old familiar feeling, like you're standing on the edge of a gulf and don't know what's below. This is uncharted territory and that is amazing if you understand the books and television series as two nearly identical but still separate tellings of the same story.


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I'll be honest, I enjoyed the changes from the books, and as long as they make sense, I don't mind seeing other small changes. I find it refreshing to see another take on ASOIAF, and to see some aspects that we never saw in the books, like that great scene in Crasters keep.


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Plenty of changes from the book have been worthwhile; its when the changes are dead or convoluted that draws ire. Yeah, sure, some people are just the Ultra-purists and you can't satisfy them; they want a 50 hour season with a virtually unlimited budget.

You bring up a lot of points so I'm going to try and address all of them. I want to comment on this with a bit of preface. I like a lot of the changes the show makes, but not all. The way they handled the sack of Winterfell, Theon's capture, and adding repetitive torture scenes was unforgivable. They fucked that up so bad. But say, replacing Roose at Harrenhall with Tywin made for a much more interesting dynamic between Arya and her captor.

My complaint is when the story is overrun by contrivance. Here its having Bran end up at this place that ... just so happens to be where Jon wanted the NW to attack? Quelle Suprise! And it just so happens that Bran was... right there....

It's not that far fetched when you think about it. The gate Bran and company went through likely wasn't far THAT from Castle Black (if anyone can show it on a map I'd appreciate it), and there is only one direction they can go. North. That's the same way Craster is/was. It's not like they showed up right at Craster's place, they heard a baby wailing. Sound travels and based on how nobody saw their fire, the sound travelled quite far. They also leave the baby out away from Craster's actual place. It's a coincidence, yes. But no more contrived than Jon and his free folk just happening to cross paths with Bran at that tower, which DOES happen in the books.

Characters happening to cross paths, realizing it or not, is very common in the books. It's one of GRRM's favourite tricks.

And that Ghost is there. Why? How'd they catch him? For what purpose? Any idea? Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?

No refuting here, that's a plothole through and through. But the problem with plotholes is that the more you try to explain them and pick at them the wider they get. How does a medeival society surivive years of winter? Real life medeival society could barely survive months? Any idea? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? I'm not saying a plothole is immune to criticism, merely saying that yes they do exist and no we shouldn't think to hard on them.

It makes no sense. It only makes sense if the GOAL was to get everyone there because... well.. you are paying these people anyway and you need to put SOMETHING on that screen. So ... you sort of contrive to put all these pieces together. And for me, that's pedestrian, low-level story-telling that I would expect out of, say, the last two seasons of BS:G or Lost.

All I'll say to this is, do you really want to bring up something lacking a sense of direction in A Song of Ice and Fire? Do you reeeeeeally want to do that?

But why involve Bran, OTHER THAN because ... well... you gotta do something with him....

Its forced. Contrived, ham-fisted story-telling. Its lazy and lacks depth, prospective and creativity. It turned a complex story into a story that relies on "Well... who's in the general area..." Its something I would expect from a network show.

I think you're overreacting, I don't see how replacing the chapters of Bran being cold, hungry, and day dreaming about Meera's bum with him being captured by the mutineers (which, in the books, were practically forgotten) turns a "complex story" into a simple one.

But other than that, it was fine...

Oh well, nevermind then.

I'm sorry, but with the rate their going through aSoSp2, it is clear that they are fully able to condense whatever storylines of Feast/Dance in season 5. Leaving whatever comes in Winds and Dream for S6/7. There was no need at all to bring in the Night's King of all things at this point in time.. They're covering the stuff from book 3 and parts of 4/5. There's no need to jump from a scene that happened in Book 3, to a scene that has direct relevance to Book 6. The gap they're jumping is far, far too wide and it will only make the storylines more disjointed then they already are..

All I want to say to you is that the Others were never handled well. Always stupid, and would have been better if they never even made it into the books. It's such a detached and uninteresting storyline, once every book they show up and we're reminded that "Oooh, zombies are coming!" and then it's back to incest and intrigue. Pulling Others and White Walker stuff back to earlier portions of the story is not a bad idea in fact it's probably how GRRM should have done it from the get-go.

It's too early to really criticize that scene, as we don't know how much more of it we'll be seeing in future episodes. If that turns into the White Walker's token appearance I'll eat my words, but if they're trying to set them up to seem more relevant I won't complain.

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This was a brilliant episode. I friggin' loved it! Everything! Even Dany's stuff was great. Much better. This show just keeps getting better.



Loved the Craster's Keep madness. (Yes, Karl was pushing the envelope, but I bought it. They're hungry, desperate rapists who know they're not going to live much longer.) Loved the Castle Black plotting, and Locke weaving himself into the mix.



I loved the White Walker at the end. So beautifully shot. All quiet and creepy. No music. No words. Let the moment speak for itself.



I don't miss Coldhands. I know many book fans do. I don't need more chapters with Bran talking about talking to trees or green dreaming. I just love what the producers are doing with all the changes.



After I was very let down by Dany's preachy scene at the end of Episode 3, this episode was amazing. From top to bottom. The Dany takeover of Mereen was great - the Targaryen flag and the armed mobs killing ppl.



No Ramsay giggling, no Eric Bana Daario mumbling. Even without Oberyn and Arya, this was an amazing episode.



As for the White Walker/baby spoiler - huh? The White Walkers have to use babies for one of two things - either they eat babies, or turn them into more White Walkers. So I didn't feel spoiled at all.



King's Landing - Diana Rigg - god damn, she's amazing. I could watch The Queen of Thorns write "Thank you" cards. The Queen of Thorns actually ADMITTED she killed Joffrey! Great. We don't ALWAYS need GRRM's customary cute "everything is grey" language - just a steely stare with "Oh, I know Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey." Loved Margaery's gentle seduction of Tommen. Ser Pounce sighting! Loved the shot of sweet lil Tommen in crazy Joffrey's giant bedroom with the arrow-filled animal trophies. The Jaime/Brienne/Bronn/Tyrion dynamic was brilliant.



Does anyone really wish mute Ilyn Payne was training with Jaime vs. smart-mouthed Bronn?



Just an amazing episode.



This is the best show ever seen by human eyeballs. Yes, including Breaking Bad. That's right - I said it.



Now I have to re-watch it. Hush now...



The End.


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You didn't answer the question.. It's "gratuitous" in the books as well. So apparently, despite your claim of being a grown ass man, you have an issue with visual sex, but not written sex, while both are gratuitous. You don't want gratuitous sex, just say so. Go read 50Shades of Grey or whatever..

Oh my god... I replied to this like 10 posts before this. And what makes you think I've read the books? And also... I've heard people complain about far more interesting things the show has cut or deviated from the books, so why must they show gratuitous sex just because it's that way in the books? And it's not that they show it. Every premium cable show has gratuitous sex every now & then. It's that they show it ALL... THE... TIME!

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Oh my god... I replied to this like 10 posts before this. And what makes you think I've read the books? And also... I've heard people complain about far more interesting things the show has cut or deviated from the books, so why must they show gratuitous sex just because it's that way in the books? And it's not that they show it. Every premium cable show has gratuitous sex every now & then. It's that they show it ALL... THE... TIME!

They show gratuitous sex for two reasons.

  1. It's part of the story, it's part of the books, it belongs in the show.

It's HBO and tits make people watch.

You're admitting to having not read the books so (for starters if you haven't been entirely spoiled already please leave) real discussion here is pointless. You would be amazed how much the sex has been toned down in the show compared to the books. Some tits and dicks have been added to certain scenes where they haven't before (looking at you Oberyn, you horny devil) but it hardly mattered (in Oberyn's case it actually made sense) and if you really can't stand this kind of stuff you really shouldn't be watching Game of Thrones.

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It's not that far fetched when you think about it. The gate Bran and company went through likely wasn't far THAT from Castle Black (if anyone can show it on a map I'd appreciate it), and there is only one direction they can go. North. That's the same way Craster is/was. It's not like they showed up right at Craster's place, they heard a baby wailing. Sound travels and based on how nobody saw their fire, the sound travelled quite far. They also leave the baby out away from Craster's actual place. It's a coincidence, yes. But no more contrived than Jon and his free folk just happening to cross paths with Bran at that tower, which DOES happen in the books.

It is because of how close Nightfort is to Castle Black. Essentially the distance is roughly equivalent if not shorter to the distance from Castle Black to Crasters. In fact, Crasters is closer to Nightfort than it is to Castle Black. NIghtfort is number 8 http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110708124258/gameofthrones/images/c/ca/The_Wall_Map.PNG

If you just think about the fact that Bran left Sam likely a day or two before Jon arrives at Castle Black wounded. If I remember correctly, Sam is at Castle Black when Jon arrives. Jon is now healthy, what sort of time has passed? 1 month? 2, maybe more? You are telling me that Jon can travel the same distance Bran can travel in a one month or more in just a few days? That just doesn't add up. Especially since Crasters isn't too far in the show either 40 or 60 miles. I don't quite remember which it was.

Essentially they should never end up at a place that close to both exit points on the wall within a similar time frame. It just doesn't make sense for that to happen. Could Bran have had an escapade at Crasters without Jon being involved? Sure, that could make sense.

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