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[Book Spoilers] Daenerys evil moment rushed. Runners look uncomfortable with it.


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I can't think of any couple of any 2 GoT characters that wouldn't be better. Even Cersei and a White Walker would probably work better. :D

But Stannis and Dany? Pure gold. :D

No, I meant, how do you know it would be a better love story than Twilight? Read it?

I think Catelyn and a White Walker would equal Twilight. A cold emotionless b**** and a creature made of ice.

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Well, don't start at how awful they treated a valuable hostage, and he was treated by reasonable people, not like Joff treated Sansa..I mean he is the only one who mistreats her and no one wants that really. But treating Jaime that way? He is an awful person at that point and all, but how they did it was inhumane. Even for that time.

But that doesn't fit. They cut Ned, the North wants Joffrey. if they would have gotten to him, they would have beheaded him. Eye for an eye.

If they would have cut off Jaime's head, that would not have been eye for an eye.

The thing is, Lord Karstark wanted 'vengeance' and killed two random Lannisters for the deaths of his sons. He even says its vengeance not justice.

The Starks wanted the actual person responsible to pay. This is justice.

Dany selected 163 people at random. The show has already demonstrated that random punishment is vengeance not justice.

Oh, and about the imprisonment.... Jaime was being fed and watered. It was only Varys sneaking water to Ned that kept him alive.

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No, I meant, how do you know it would be a better love story than Twilight? Read it?

I think Catelyn and a White Walker would equal Twilight. A cold emotionless b**** and a creature made of ice.

True and the age difference might also fit. And yes, read all of them. A friend told me it would be good, I bought all 4 books in a box, I'm too cheap to not read something I bought, but after one book you start learning to read it like a parody (and never to trust that friend again). :drunk:

And to get back on topic: If Dany needs something else to torture people with, I can totally borrow them to her. :cool4:

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you are definitely a new level of the ignorant troll.

And when someone writes "only Starks and Stannis are just"..well, can't be helped from there on.

Just...how is burning a person just. This can only come from an ignorant fool who never felt what it is like to have part of your skin burned off. Or a monstrous wolf savaging soldiers. And those are only the methods, not even speaking of why they do it, the causes.

But lecturing other people about how the actions of Daenerys are unjust and crazy, insane..

Have fun.

You'll note I said "to a limited extent Stannis." Now you're just jumping to conclusions man. I've never defended Stannis's burnings. That would fall under the category of injustice because its "cruel and unusual punishment." Crazy, I can apply the same rule of law to different sets of facts. Its almost like thats how people do it in real life.

You don't know the first thing about me. I liked Dany quite a lot as a character earlier on. This act in particular I take issue with, as should everyone. I didn't ever say her "actions" I never used the plural, I'm only talking about this one specific event. So crazy since this whole thread was about said specific event.

If we're throwing words around like ignorant then it would seem that term applies to you. You're being ignorant of Dany's faults while holding those same faults against other characters. I'm applying my rule to all characters equally. Scandalous!!!! I must be a troll!!!! I used logic to outmaneuver you not once, not twice, but three times now!!! I must be hacking.

-_-

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Oh, and about the imprisonment.... Jaime was being fed and watered. It was only Varys sneaking water to Ned that kept him alive.

This sounds like a potted plant..watered. :lol:

You forget a major point: Ned was a traitor. he openly did a coup d'etat. He tried to usurp the throne for someone. He wanted to lock up cersei and her children. If he was right or not does not matter. He openly did high treason. He should be grateful that Janos didn't execute him on the scene.

Jaime was just leading an army. he didn't do any crime against them in that moment. He was terribly mistreated by the Starks and ended up being maimed by their crazy dog

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The slaver scene was ok and made the point about Dany's brand of justice but I agree that there is entirely too little blood running in the streets of any of those cities she has liberated.

Well there was blood. There was so much blood, it even reached the walls.. :D

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Justice is not a black & white issue. There are all forms of justice and all sorts of ways for justice to be defined. Punishment for wrongdoings can be justice. The Starks behead someone. They are not trying to teach that person a lesson, make them change their ways and be a better person. The death penalty is retribution. It is also a deterrent against others who may perform a similar crime.



Anyway, the topic started by calling the crucifixion of 163 slavers evil. I do not consider what she did as evil. Call it what you want...vengeance, justice, retribution, a message, part of war...but it wasn't evil. It also depends who you ask. I'm sure the families of the crucified children would call it justice as would many slaves. The slavers would most likely disagree.


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This sounds like a potted plant..watered. :lol:

You forget a major point: Ned was a traitor. he openly did a coup d'etat. He tried to usurp the throne for someone. He wanted to lock up cersei and her children. If he was right or not does not matter. He openly did high treason. He should be grateful that Janos didn't execute him on the scene.

Jaime was just leading an army. he didn't do any crime against them in that moment. He was terribly mistreated by the Starks and ended up being maimed by their crazy dog

You're done.

Goodbye.

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Yes it is retribution and deterrence.



Crucifixion is evil. Plain and simple. It was evil when the slavers did it. It was evil when Dany did it. It was evil when the Romans did it. It's an evil act, its cruel and unusual punishment. Simple. Fact. Stop arguing it, it just makes you look like a sadist. Sheesh.



Also @ Metopheles Confirmed troll.


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You all miss the point.


The Great Masters thought they are untouchable and no one could do them anything. They thought they would get away with it.


The crucifixion of them proved them wrong. It set a symbol.


It was their trade, their way of doing it. Daenerys and the slaves taught them otherwise.


It set a symbol that the Masters suddenly are no longer untouchable. They are no longer above the law. They are no longer absolutist rulers.



She had to send a symbol. Nowadays you use the media to demonize criminals to send a symbol that it is wrong. You punish them publicly just the same as it was done in the medieval when people were brought to the pillory.


Send a symbol of justice and fear towards those who want to do the same crimes.


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Jaime was just leading an army. he didn't do any crime against them in that moment. He was terribly mistreated by the Starks and ended up being maimed by their crazy dog

How did the Starks mistreat Jaime? Are you talking Show or Book?

In the Books, Jaime starts off in a Tower Cell with a nice view (later offered to Catelyn Stark after her treason). He gets moved to the dungeons only after being involved in an escape attempt that resulted in [Tully] fatalities. In the show, Jaime is kept in fresh air until he tries to escape by murdering his own cousin (a fellow captive).

In the book, Jaime is maimed by his father's sellsword band as a show of loyalty to its new employer, Roose Bolton. In the show, Jaime is maimed by a Bolton man with personal issues. Based on Robb's willingness to execute Karstark for murdering captives, it doesn't seem like Robb would condone Locke's action, since "dead or alive" doesn't include "and mutilate for sport if he annoys you."

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You all miss the point.

The Great Masters thought they are untouchable and no one could do them anything. They thought they would get away with it.

The crucifixion of them proved them wrong. It set a symbol.

It was their trade, their way of doing it. Daenerys and the slaves taught them otherwise.

It set a symbol that the Masters suddenly are no longer untouchable. They are no longer above the law. They are no longer absolutist rulers.

She had to send a symbol. Nowadays you use the media to demonize criminals to send a symbol that it is wrong. You punish them publicly just the same as it was done in the medieval when people were brought to the pillory.

Send a symbol of justice and fear towards those who want to do the same crimes.

None of that worked though. The killings of the Unsullied by the Sons of the Harpies showed the slavers weren't afraid of Dany's retribution.

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Just like the books, the show will have viewers that are critical of her decisions, and those who are totally fine with them. I think it would be a disservice if D&D went too far in the white or black direction and told us what to think of Dany, let the viewers decide, like GRRM does in the books. I for one think Dany has been kind of annoying since the 2nd season, and I love her chapters in the books.


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Just like the books, the show will have viewers that are critical of her decisions, and those who are totally fine with them. I think it would be a disservice if D&D went too far in the white or grey direction and told us what to think of Dany, let the viewers decide, like GRRM does in the books. I for one think Dany has been kind of annoying since the 2nd season, and I love her chapters in the books.

They do that with Stannis, so I'm used to it by now :Lol:

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None of that worked though. The killings of the Unsullied by the Sons of the Harpies showed the slavers weren't afraid of Dany's retribution.

That's right.

But the Sons of the Harpy were to be expected. There is always a small group or larger group that still cling to the old ways. I mean there are thousands of full blown racists still out there and people who would want slavery back, even if it is against the law and zeitgeist.

But the majority is changed. And Dany needs to give it more time. You can't change a culture in a year. Gandhi or Suu Kyi didn't change their culture or regimes in one year. They spend decades doing it.

But you have to start somewhere.

And Daenerys gave the slaves a symbol of hope. Even if it may have failed big time. New slave revolts will come. They saw it is possible. The image and the illusion of the untouchable masters is broken. We should not ignore this small achievement.

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I actually thought the "evil moment" was fine. Dany was even pulled aside by Barristan and chose to crucify the slavers anyway. I mean we even had Dany perched at the top of a pyramid overlooking Meereen, targaryen banner flying just chilling listening to the screams of all those slavers. Maybe the Dany haters would of been pleased if she was also strangling a puppy in that scene.



I do agree that the way she took the city was a bit too clean though. Sacks aren't pleasant and even if you're taking a city with good intentions they are still messy and I really hoped we could of seen that.


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