JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I meant in the books. He's supportive of her every decision and only says something if she asks his opinion. Yeah, that I get. but I guess in the show they have to show things more obviously because there are no inner dialogues. I'm sure many Unsullied think this is another moment of awesome for her, like "Dracarys". I personally don't dislike her for what she did, but I can see why many others think it's wrong. This debate must be taken to screen somehow and showing one of her main supporters having doubts, specially the supporter that knew her father, proves that what she thinks is justice, might be nothing but revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Lol on the complaint it was "rushed". They literally showed Great Masters being nailed to to crosses, what more do you want? The show has now shown her burn a rape victim alive, lock one of her hand maidens in a vault to die, used trickery to get her army, and crucified people on screen. Can we stop with the "whitewashing" nonsense now?we are talking about the sack of Mereen and the 163. A definig moment of a whole book, done in two minutes as a filler scene.Tonight it doesnt even rank top 3 in the heavy shit moments that were shown in this episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 ShowTyrion...now, that's whitewashing.Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Lol on the complaint it was "rushed". They literally showed Great Masters being nailed to to crosses, what more do you want? :agree: Personally I thought they nailed it. Wasn't over the top, felt like justice, and yet at the same time unsettled you. If they'd made it feel like an outright bad decision, I would have been upset. Its a contentious decision, and it should leave viewers conflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 "ill answer Justice with justice" Line was really good! Its going to make a lot of people go "What the fuck does that even mean!" and some viewers wont know how to react. I liked that especially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 :agree: Personally I thought they nailed it. Wasn't over the top, felt like justice, and yet at the same time unsettled you. If they'd made it feel like an outright bad decision, I would have been upset. Its a contentious decision, and it should leave viewers conflicted. Exactly The OP of this thread seems to be expecting them to show Dany laughing as the slavers are nailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yus Yus, some of the best/most effective eyes-only communication/acting since the Michelle Fairley/Michael McElhatton exchange at the end of S3 E9. Loved Barristan's ".....oh shit. Oh Shit." moment. Of course it got overshadowed for me by later events but I definitely noticed that nice little bit of building for the future. Indeed. That was "Ive heard this before, Aerys Jr." Dany standing on the top of that pyramid while all those guys are screaming and that Targaryen flag placed over the Harpy. Its spooky. Its supposed to make the audience go "heh yeah!" and then later go "omg was that really justice?" Especially since Barristan protested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Oddly enough, they're giving Dany the kinds of scenes I wish we were getting from Stannis. Instead of Davos, we get Barristan disapproving of her actions, but seeing that there are legitimate reasons for them. Whether it was just of Stannis to burn Alester for trying to sell his daughter to the Lannisters isn't one that's easily answered, nor is this decision to crucify 163 of the masters without a trial or investigation as to who bears the most responsibility for the murder of the young slaves. I just wish the nuance was more consistent across character arcs. Yes, Barristan is Dany's Davos now, her "good angel". I kinda almost write that example :lol:. With Dany, I guess they're only trying to show us both sides of the story. We often complain about not having an "Essos POV" about her, and now we have it: the slavers are more than grateful that she free them and kill their abusers, so, her actions are shown "good" to their eyes. Barristan, a man with more experience in both battle and life, realises that she has a simplistic definition of revenge: eye for an eye, and that caused her father to be called "mad King" Stannis is different because although he's relative young, he's a more seasoned warrior and man. He knows what he's doing might be wrong, but he explicitly says "I have to suffer it for the greater good". So, there isn't really much space for Davos to try to convince him to do something different because Stannis knows that he can only take the "bad" path now. But in the same way, Stannis, I guess, will be shown through the eyes of those he's gonna help, the NW and Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 That last shot of Dany standing on the pyramid overlooking her city with the Targaryen flag above her was just epic. As to the scene in question, I thought it was done perfectly. I actually lied the part where Barristan expressed reservations about her doing it. But no I don't think this was supposed to convey a "Hey look its Aerys Jr" as some suggested above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Arryn Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yes, Barristan is Dany's Davos now, her "good angel". I kinda almost write that example :lol:. With Dany, I guess they're only trying to show us both sides of the story. We often complain about not having an "Essos POV" about her, and now we have it: the slavers are more than grateful that she free them and kill their abusers, so, her actions are shown "good" to their eyes. Barristan, a man with more experience in both battle and life, realises that she has a simplistic definition of revenge: eye for an eye, and that caused her father to be called "mad King" This^^^^ HBO gives us new POVs, POVs of Dany slaves that see what she is doing is good and POV of Barristan that shows what she is doing iis wrong, the book lacks that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belisarius09 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 An Eye for an Eye leaves the whole world blind. Retribution =/= Justice. Dany wasn't serving justice she was getting revenge to make herself feel better. That said, I think D&D kept the whitewashing toned down. The episode did do a good job of depicting the suffering Dany's decision caused and Baristan's distaste for it. Granted they didn't point out how she "let the slavers choose arbitrarily amongst themselves" like it happened in the books, and that can be taken as whitewashing a bit. All said and done though I think it did ultimately come across as an "evil act" on the part of Dany. The tone of that moment was definitely dark. The music wasn't joyous, the screams of pain and agony weren't music to my ears, and the look on Baristan's face when Dany displayed the first hints of her madness was pure gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 An Eye for an Eye leaves the whole world blind. Retribution =/= Justice. Dany wasn't serving justice she was getting revenge to make herself feel better. That said, I think D&D kept the whitewashing toned down. The episode did do a good job of depicting the suffering Dany's decision caused and Baristan's distaste for it. Granted they didn't point out how she "let the slavers choose arbitrarily amongst themselves" like it happened in the books, and that can be taken as whitewashing a bit. All said and done though I think it did ultimately come across as an "evil act" on the part of Dany. The tone of that moment was definitely dark. The music wasn't joyous, the screams of pain and agony weren't music to my ears, and the look on Baristan's face when Dany displayed the first hints of her madness was pure gold. I agree that for us it's not justice but for the slaves, it was. For example, if you're been robbed and someone arrives and shoots the robber, you will feel forever thankful because it caused a direct benefit for you, and probably saved your life. For the slaves, she's sending the message: no more slavery while she's around and they're grateful she has just saved them from a fate similar to the kids they murdered ONLY to taunt her. Of course, the guy who robbed you had a family and friends. They will say "oh, this guy needed a trial!" and they're also right. Barristan has seen men die in battle and know that a King was merciful to him (Robert allowing him to serve him) and what are the consequences of having your own views about justice. So, it's not that simple. For the slaves she did good. For Barristan, it's doubtful. The fact that Barristan is feeling there is something wrong about her proves that they want us, the audience, to make our own conclusions about what she did. They're showing the two points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ashes Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I was vaguely expecting one of the nailed masters to say to the one next to him"From this day forth, you shall be with me in Paradise."Also, the freed slaves to be singing "Hosanna!" as Dany walked by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungsmurfen Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Overall I thought the scene felt rushed but it was alright I guess. That last shot of Dany standing on the pyramid overlooking her city with the Targaryen flag above her was just epic. All I could think was "Who put that there" and "Since when does she use a flag?" :lol: I was kind of hoping for a moment like this :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longspear Ryk Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Maybe this was the scene they were forced to tone down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Crashing Waves Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Maybe this was the scene they were forced to tone down I figured it was the rape scenes at Craster's keep. They showed a pregnant woman get stabbed repeatedly in the stomach. Some crucifixions shouldn't be much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob the Builder Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 they made the "sack" of mareen seem like one guy died during it. where was all the rape, plunder and pillaging that dany ended up blanket pardoning? the white wash machine was in full affect today... Budget.... The killing of the one guy was symbolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oberyn2cool4Westeros Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Excuse me while I weep for the poor slave masters. Wait, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Surely im not the only one who thinks that Dany's scenes will be completely forgotten after....like 30min thats my only complaint FUCK SLAVERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheswamp Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Tyrion and Dany are both going to get a gentle touch. I'd add Jon as well, but he doesn't do anything that needs to be whitewashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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