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[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa VIII: Learning the Game


Mladen

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I think exactly like you do. I would have thought she'd of thrown it overboard by now. That she still has it on kind of makes me feel like they'll use it at a visual representation of her changing identities (i.e. going from Lady Lannister to Alayne Stone) once she takes it off. I don't know. I just think its interesting--in a general sense--that she's still wearing it. Kind of indicative that their relationship in the show is indeed, very different from the books. I kind of feel like Book Sansa would have throw that overboard the first chance she got. Show Sansa....eh...she'll wear it a little while longer.

I always thought having her wear a wedding ring in the first place was kind of dumb, both because it wasn't a thing in the books and because I don't think other married female characters in the series wear wedding rings, either. Of course, if it's going to be a capital-m Moment when she removes the ring as you suggest to mark her transformation into Alayne, then that might explain it.

...Still kind of disappointed she didn't throw it into the sea. That would have been suitably dramatic, if a little cornball. I had that scene pictured so clearly in my mind that I was really surprised when I saw the preview and she was still wearing it.

Speaking of physical transformations, I'm kind of peeved that Sansa in the Eyrie snow scene from the Season 4 trailers, by which point she's presumably masquerading as Alayne, is wearing her Blackwater dress. Come on.

On another note, it seems to be assumed that "Only Cat" will be in 4x10 along with all the other big climactic scenes. The promo for 4x05 seems to be zipping right through Sansa's storyline, though. Could "Only Cat" be as early as Mockingbird, the 4x07 episode?

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It is interesting to note that Sansa is not afraid at all of Baelish since she rather bluntly threw accusations marked as questions into his face. There is no facial, body language or verbal restrainment towards him, compared to being at court before.

Only Tyrion got HBO Sansa's, contrary to book Sansa, honest emotions of sadness and fury. So much more dignified than the mousy silence in the books. But then Sophie Turner's Sansa is much more mature than book Sansa. And, see quotes above, Tyrion is the one she trusts so far not to betray her.

Does she trust Baelish not to harm her? Does Baelish please his own sense of grandeur by sharing his awesomeness with Sansa, seeing her as powerless? And yet she feels safe enough to be sharp towards him.

Maybe showmakers don't want to make it easy for Baelish to draw her on his side, don't want to present her as naive any longer when she asked the right questions, a true task for Baelish, not an easy prey. They may keep it open for a while if Sansa will side with LF. Nothing is spoiled so far since it is very much open in the books as well.

But this Sansa won't stumble naively into Baelish's traps, she may make conscious decisions to side with him or not. So she may follow Baelish's plans in whatever way and become a killer. Or HBO Sansa may truly become an active Sherlock, find out some things and be the end of Baelish, revenge served cold.

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I think that the wedding will be in 407, Newstar and that "Only Cat" will still be in the finale as many suspected. I hope I'm right, but we'll see. I think they should build up Lysa some more and make her seem like more of a big deal before they give her flying lessons.


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Woman of War, I noticed Sansa being blunt and pointed with LF as well, although she was still somewhat guarded: she didn't shrug off LF when he ran his hand down her arm, although she was clearly uncomfortable.

LF is also much more openly creepy and handsy with Sansa than he was at this point in the books. I didn't think they would do the LF/Sansa kiss, but after the most recent episodes I think a kiss would hardly be shocking.

One thing I'd forgotten is that Sophie Turner usually misses two or three episodes a season. 4x09 is out, but it's probably a safe bet that she's appearing in 4x10 and 4x07. If she sits out 4x06, then 4x07 seems a very unlikely candidate for "Only Cat," I agree.

The only thing about putting "Only Cat" in the finale is that I think that the snow scene has to be in the same episode as the confrontation with Lysa, and that seems like a lot for an episode that's going to be crammed to the gills with other things. On the other hand, if not 4x10, where would it go?

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But then Sophie Turner's Sansa is much more mature than book Sansa.

No, she really isn't.

On another note, it seems to be assumed that "Only Cat" will be in 4x10 along with all the other big climactic scenes. The promo for 4x05 seems to be zipping right through Sansa's storyline, though. Could "Only Cat" be as early as Mockingbird, the 4x07 episode?

I really doubt that. The main reason some people seem to be suggesting that is because there won't be enough room in episode 10 or whatever, but if you assume "Only Cat" is in episode 7, then that means episode 10 is going to cover the aftermath of that and introduce the Lords Declarant story, and I can't see how that could possibly take much less time. It would also blow through at least a full third of Sansa's AFFC material in a single episode (the substance of her first chapter and the first meeting with the lords in the second, albeit presumably without the climax).

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I always thought having her wear a wedding ring in the first place was kind of dumb, both because it wasn't a thing in the books and because I don't think other married female characters in the series wear wedding rings, either. Of course, if it's going to be a capital-m Moment when she removes the ring as you suggest to mark her transformation into Alayne, then that might explain it.

...Still kind of disappointed she didn't throw it into the sea. That would have been suitably dramatic, if a little cornball. I had that scene pictured so clearly in my mind that I was really surprised when I saw the preview and she was still wearing it.

Speaking of physical transformations, I'm kind of peeved that Sansa in the Eyrie snow scene from the Season 4 trailers, by which point she's presumably masquerading as Alayne, is wearing her Blackwater dress. Come on.

On another note, it seems to be assumed that "Only Cat" will be in 4x10 along with all the other big climactic scenes. The promo for 4x05 seems to be zipping right through Sansa's storyline, though. Could "Only Cat" be as early as Mockingbird, the 4x07 episode?

Good point about the other married female characters not wearing wedding rings. Hadn't thought about it before, but now that you mention it, I've got a lot of hand-watching to do. ;)

So. Damn. True. about her wearing the Blackwater dress. Besides being repetitive, there's also the logistical consideration of how she smuggled the dress out of there to being with considering her escape wasn't planned nor did Dontos make a little carry-on bag for her.

I've always predicated "Only Cat" would be episode 7, and as of right now, I see no reason to change that theory. ;) Although....that promo topic in the "First of His Name" thread gave me a new idea about what they're going to do with Sansa in episode 10 (if, indeed, "Only Cat" is episode 7). But let me flesh it out in my head before I go suggesting wild and crazy theories out loud.

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I really doubt that. The main reason some people seem to be suggesting that is because there won't be enough room in episode 10 or whatever, but if you assume "Only Cat" is in episode 7, then that means episode 10 is going to cover the aftermath of that and introduce the Lords Declarant story, and I can't see how that could possibly take much less time. It would also blow through at least a full third of Sansa's AFFC material in a single episode (the substance of her first chapter and the first meeting with the lords in the second, albeit presumably without the climax).

Agreed. Sansa has what? 3 chapters in AFFC? Ayra's in a similar predicament, which is why they're dragging out her story. "Only Cat" needs to be her episode 10 conclusion. As it is, we're likely to see TWOW material for Sansa's arc next year.

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There is no way that "Only Cat " is not the last scene from the Eyrie this season and therefore should be in episode 10. There really is no point whatsover to have any other scene from the Eyrie after that as it is the prefect way to end her story arc.



As far as the snow castle scene, which I have my doubts we will actually have an actual castle, that possibly could be in episode 8.

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As far as the snow castle scene, which I have my doubts we will actually have an actual castle, that possibly could be in episode 8.

Separating those two scenes into different episodes would be a terrible, terrible pacing decision. I can't say they wouldn't consider it, given how (for instance) they left Dany's "Mhysa" scene in the season 3 finale dangling without any context, but I desperately hope they don't.

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Separating those two scenes into different episodes would be a terrible, terrible pacing decision. I can't say they wouldn't consider it, given how (for instance) they left Dany's "Mhysa" scene in the season 3 finale dangling without any context, but I desperately hope they don't.

I hope they don't either but given how much stuff they have to cover in the finale it is definitely a possibility.

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I hope they don't either but given how much stuff they have to cover in the finale it is definitely a possibility.

My thoughts. But because of the battle in 4x09, it means the snow castle scene may be likely separated by 2 episodes, so that's another thing to keep in mind.

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Getting back to the player or pawn theme.



Sansa has been and always will be a player. I think you when you look back, Sansa always has a champion, someone to fight for her and protect her. Only Joffey tried to harm her and that was after he initially tried to impress her.



The Hound protected her the best way he could, Tyrion protected her the best way he could and now Petyr. She has faced down the most sadistic (joffrey), most feared (the hound), most cunning (Petyr) as well as the richest in Tyrion and not one of them has gotten what the wanted. I think in the end we will find out that Sansa's gift as a warg is to manipulate people, especially men.



you remember the scene at the Batlle of Blackwater when the Hound came to her room. She said you won't hurt me and he repeated it back to her like some people do whenthey are in a trance.

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My thoughts. But because of the battle in 4x09, it means the snow castle scene may be likely separated by 2 episodes, so that's another thing to keep in mind.

Noooo. That would completely destroy all momentum leading up to the Moon Door moment. I think that will all be in episode 7, and then, in episode 10, you'll have Yohn Royce and the Lords Declarant (who have already been cast for this season) investigating Lysa's murder. Sansa will testify that Marillion pushed her (which I imagine is where we'll also get the line in the preview where Petyr says, "I want to know who's side you're on?"), which means all of S5 will be the Harry storyline and TWOW.

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As we have heard from production diaries, Eyrie has been dismantled after the shooting for this season., so that means that Sansa's storyline in Season 4 is most likely concluding with the "Only Cat" or even with them abandoning Eyrie after Lysa's death. That of course leaves so little of material for season 5, and just like in Arya's case, we will face a serious issue of lacking the material.



OK... As for how we might see it:



4.05 --- Introduction to Lysa


4.07 --- "Mockingbird" probably Lysa/Petyr wedding and possible attempt of rape on Sansa... There was an article about her shooting rape scene this year


4.08/09/10 --- this is where it gets confusing... One episode could be "Only Cat", and then in the finale, we see the trial and abandoning Eyrie, or we might see the "Only Cat" moment in finale. I imagine snow castle scene would be in the same episode as "Only Cat"


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Is the Eyrie set everything, or just the hall with the Moon Door where Tyrion's trial was held? Because the latter isn't needed in the books after "Only Cat"--although my memory's a bit foggy on that--but if the former means all Eyrie sets, then that might have implications for AFFC material (the descent from the Eyrie being a big part of same). I think it must just mean the big hall set; I have trouble believing they'd just gloss over the descent.

Mladen, I think that quote about shooting a rape scene arose from an interview where she was discussing the Season 2 riot scene. It's confusing, because the quote appeared recently on the web, but it was from a Tatler interview where in context it refers to the riot scene.

Now that you mention it, though, I wonder how the show will deal with Marillion. They could just cast another character who could do everything Marillion did but who would have another name, I guess. They need someone, maybe not to attempt to rape Sansa, but to play the part of Lysa's accomplice and LF's patsy.

I agree with everyone who said that splitting the snow scene and the Moon Door sequence would be a terrible decision.

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The descent down from the Eyrie could be extremely difficult to film, especially if they have animals, so I'm thinking they'll skip it or adapt it in some way. The way Sansa manipulates Robert into leaving is really key, so I hope they keep that in.

Do y'all really think they'll keep the snow castle scene (or something like it)? I'm afraid they'll just skip the longing/strength from Winterfell part and just have the kiss.

Also, back to the episode at hand...

The "what is it that you do want?" / "I want everything." exchange stuck in my mind. LF puts his hand on Sansa's shoulder/arm right before or after that, and it was so unsettling. It would have been better if Catlyn and Sansa actors looked alike, but I thought the point got across.

"Everything" felt like a throwaway sneaky answer. D&D have to keep us in the dark about LF's true intentions, and LF wants to keep Sansa somewhat in the dark.

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Yeah I thought they might have held off on killing Dontos for him to be the patsy, but really anyone can fill that role. The show just seems to be fond of stretching characters.

Was Sweetrobin recast?

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