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(Book Spoilers ) Beautifully Disgusting Killers- A Karl and Locke appreciation thread


Darkbringer

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Really I think these two steal the scenes they are in. Locke was absolutely brilliant from the outset. A much better option than Vargo and Zollo in my opinion, Vargo was just too flamboyant and out-there for TV. Both he and Karl had a great episode. Karl drinking from Mormonts skull was a bit much, but I loved the way he went on his little bragging sesh. Karl was brilliant when he took down Craster too. I assume both of these guys are going down soon, mores the pity, cuz they are a delight to watch. I don't think there's any way out for either of them, is there? Do you think Jon will cotton on to Locke before the shit goes down? Would be a good development of Jon's judgement if he did.


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Karl's scene was very macabre. I liked it a lot. I think the sentimentality that drives his character is what makes him so interesting; from reminding himself of his rise from Gin Alley, threatening Rast to prove what a warrior he is (or was), to keeping Mormont's skull and a caged direwolf as trophies of his "success".



Also; "You look like a fucking ball sack."



Glad we're getting more of Locke, too. Vargo works in the books, as he's a weirdly twisted character; but I think Locke fits the tone of the show better. He's twisted in his own way, and I like that he's working for Roose which helps tie in The Wall with The North story a bit earlier. Noah has been killing it, and I weirdly enjoyed his interaction with Jon despite wanting to scream No don't trust him!.


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I wanted Locke to drag Jon behind a barracks and make out, but that's just me. "hmm, not a threat. Just your bros."



I like how reprehensibley realistic Karl is. Kinda cheered him on at "you're a daughterfucking wildling bastard" but after that it was a nosedive into douchebaggery. He's all king of the dilapidated incest compound and mighty proud, even if he's stuck out in the sticks and probably running low on food. Was curious why he was pretty quick to leave the baby out for the White Walkers instead of killing it right there.


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They had previously established that the reason Craster felt safe was because of the boy baby sacrifice. It made sense to continue the practice.

Yup yup, I just found it interesting he was quick to embrace Craster's customs. I mean, they all fought the ice zombies but are still holing up North of the Wall. Imma thinking cabin fever's going to set in as Jon gets there.

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As much as the idea that any character could be "too flamboyant and out-there for TV" makes me ashamed of humanity, the actor playing Locke has really made me love Vargo Hoat's replacement.



I actually think he'll be around for a while - at least another whole season after this one - assuming they have him playing a ringleader role in the murder of Jon at the end of ADWD.



Karl is fantastic too. The moment he said "You are a bastard" to Craster in that harsh voice, I thought "why haven't they cast this guy in a more important role so we can see more of him?". He'll be killed off pretty soon I imagine, but we'll hopefully get a couple more good scenes from him first.


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As much as the idea that any character could be "too flamboyant and out-there for TV" makes me ashamed of humanity, the actor playing Locke has really made me love Vargo Hoat's replacement.

I took flamboyant to mean too cartoonish and silly rather than flaming. I mean, you can have giggling and vicious (Floki), but add a wild hairdo, a zorse, and a lisp and you start getting hokey onscreen.

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I like Locke. Not that much into Karl. He seems to be too much of an exaggerated villian, the script writers are laying it on too thick. The actor is quite good thou. I assume he's gonna get killed off soon, so I shan't bother about him too much or invest too much attention on him.


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I like the characterization of both.



Locke is not Vargo Hoat, but I thought he would have made a decent Shagwell replacement if they had kept him down south to clash with Brienne again.



As for Karl, he does a good job of showing why some men are sent to the Watch. The guy was some sort of King's Landing hitman; makes him dangerous enough to be a challenge even to the highborn who are trained at arms. His background also shows why he gave no fucks at all about breaking guest right. I wonder if this was something the producers decided to add after seeing the actor's performance just before Craster gets murdered.


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I'm a massive fan of dark humour and tend not to get offended by really anything so I loved the whole Craster subplot. Karl stealing the show, showing exactly what a cutthroat from the gutters who was forced to live a life of celibate shame on a frozen wall would do the second they get freedom and power (even if it's rather limited).



As for Locke, the actor just looks...right? I don't know, his facial expressions and attitude are awesome, has a mix of amusement and sheer danger that seems to be a staple in the Bolton entourage. Hope he sticks around for the Ides of March as he seems to be worming his way into Jon's confidence quickly.


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The actor they cast to play Karl is SO creepy - spot on! I was so disgusted by him. I think this is the only time I would have actually cheered on Rast if he'd have been provoked and finally tried to shut Karl up. Ugh!~



As for Locke - I had my reservations about him when he was first announced / cast because I couldn't imagine such a complete change from Vargo Hoat. But Locke's grown on me and that's mostly because of the fantastic actor. He's really really good. For a brief moment there in the scene with Jon in the yard at Castle Black, I -almost- felt like Locke could be a totally cool companion and supporter to Jon's cause. But then I remembered his motives and reasons for being there and got the chills because his acting was so good he's almost easy to like and trust. That's exactly what they're going for so Jon falls for it. Well played.

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"His background also shows why he gave no fucks at all about breaking guest right. "



You are aware that "guest right" requires that the host not harm his guests not the other way around? The host is deemed to be able to harm the guests. Only a fool would invite in "guests" that could harm him. Thus Karl and the boys (and the hound in episode three did not tehnically violate the rules of "guest rights").


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"His background also shows why he gave no fucks at all about breaking guest right. "

You are aware that "guest right" requires that the host not harm his guests not the other way around? The host is deemed to be able to harm the guests. Only a fool would invite in "guests" that could harm him. Thus Karl and the boys (and the hound in episode three did not tehnically violate the rules of "guest rights").

No actually it goes both ways

"The guest right is a sacred law of hospitality. When a guest, be he common born or noble, eats the food and drinks the drink off a host's table beneath the host's roof, the guest right is invoked. Bread and salt are the traditional provisions.

When invoked, neither the guest can harm his host nor the host harm his guest for the length of the guest's stay.[1] For either to do so would be to break a sacred covenant that is believed to invoke the wrath of the Gods both old and new. Both the teachings of the old gods and the Faith of the Seven hold to this. Even robber lords and wreckers are bound by the ancient laws of hospitality. [2]" - ASOIAF

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I thought Locke's job was to find Bran and Rickon, not to kill Jon. I can see him "disappearing" during the upcoming raid on Craster's and then continue the hunt solo.

EIther/or as far as what Ramsay said about Jon being a threat - but yeah first and foremost is to find the boys..

I liked the Karl scene and as Elio and some others have said it's very "Apocalypse Now" which I enjoyed in that regard..

Honestly have no clue how they'll handle it the Locke/Jon/Bran angle - Coldhands would've been the easiest way as iirc he did kill the mutineers but it was before he met up with Bran and only mentioned .. but adding the NW in (on top of what we already know) makes me wonder how they'll make this smoothly transition back into the pre-exististing story lines.

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