[Book spoilers] About Jon and Locke

[SoManyVows]

So here's the screenshot from the first trailer that shows a bearded man standing behind Alliser Thorne when he gives the "Brothers! Tonight we fight!" speech.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140113030543/gameofthrones/images/9/9b/ThorneSeason4.jpg

Some people think that's Locke - which would suggest that he survives Craster's Keep and returns to the Wall in time for the battle. Others think that the man is just an extra who happens to look a little bit like Noah Taylor. I'm inclined to take the latter point of view, primarily because of everything that the show has set up so far regarding Locke - namely, his mission and his characterization. Locke is not a good dude - he's pretty much an outright sadist. We've seen nothing to suggest that he has an altruistic streak, one that would compel him to forgo Roose Bolton's offer to give him "a thousand acres and a holdfast" in exchange for hunting down the Stark boys. He's going to turn that offer down in order to swear vows of chastity and poverty and join an undermanned order comprised largely of criminals that's about to fall under assault from a massive wildling army? That doesn't strike me as a decision that a ruthless and practical man like Locke would make. If Locke gets a chance to kill Bran, he's going to take it, and he will get that chance in the next episode - his first and last chance, as it happens.

Obviously he isn't going to succeed, but what stops him? Would the writers really spend several episodes building Locke up as this major threat to Bran, have him infiltrate the Night's Watch under false pretenses, and join a mission that will take him directly to where Bran's being held ... only to have him never encounter the kid? Even worse, after thoroughly establishing Locke as a vicious killer who buddies up with Ramsay and doesn't appear to have a single good bone in his body, would he suddenly have a completely random change of heart and let Bran go? I've got more faith in the writers than that. Locke is going to try and kill Bran, and once he makes his move, I think that someone will kill him. Most likely it will be Jon, but it could also be Meera, or Summer, or Bran by warging into Hodor.

Regardless of who does him in, I don't see Locke surviving to have a change of heart, join the Night's Watch in earnest, and take on the Bowen Marsh role somewhere down the line. If that was the route that the writers were planning to go with his character, it would have been much more effective to simply have Roose send him to the Wall in order to escape Tywin Lannister's wrath. Under those circumstances, Locke probably would have been simmering with resentment that he got so thoroughly screwed over, and he might have had a genuine reason to bond with Jon. There would be no need for this elaborate charade and, possibly, a radical change in his personality.

Noah Taylor is awesome, and he's given a great performance as Locke. In my opinion, he's been far superior to Vargo Hoat in every way. But I think that his days are numbered.

[I'll pay the iron price]

I agree that Locke is a much better character than Vargo Hoat.

Locke somehow getting Bran out of Crasters Keep without Jon seeing and then running off into the woods only to run into Cold Hands seems a plausible scene!

[angelodebo]

Maybe I am venturing into "crackpot" territory..but I interpret Locke as an agent for Roose Bolton, who is an agent for the White Walkers. I believe Locke will get attempt to kill Bran but will fail. He will then stay on for the fight at Castle Black and become close with John. Next season, he will take part in the assignation of John Snow which will have been orchestrated by Roose Bolton.

Roose has men at the wall. The "wrong way rangers" anyone? He knows killing John will cause havoc on the wall and allow the White Walkers their opportunity to come south.

Think about it...the leaches, burning the book at Harrenhall, his comment "Forever young" in the HBO series..etc etc

[Fevre River Warrior]

Locke will try to kill Jon at Crasters and Ghost will kill Locke before he succeeds.

Why all the Locke love? The guy is a creepy sadist who cut off Jamie's hand and threw Brienne into the pit with the bear.

Remember, he has to kill the Starks before he gets his holdfast and land from Bolton.

[WhiteWalker11]

Locke will stab Jon

Almost 100%.

He will probably end up protecting him during the battle w the wildings or something of the sort so that the viewer's think he has a redeeming quality behind his skill with a sword. After all, he was only charged to find Bran & Rickon. The show will give him some ups & downs to leave his true motive/ambition some vagueness, then when the time is right he'll def. be the one to do it.

But if so, how long can they really string that relationship out? Will we see Jon stabbed at the end of next season?!

I wish they'd expound on Janos Slynt a little bit so the showfolk can understand who he is, why he's there, and how much of a d-bag his really is. Many don't even recall him turning on Ned.

Also can't wait for the little redheaded kid to get revenge on Ygritte.

[Chebyshov]

Almost 100%.

Ick, I hope not. This undermines the Jon Snow mutiny so much!

[DaveyJoe]

We lost Joffrey, we're about to lose Karl, I hope Locke gets to stick around a while longer.

[Lord Jennings]

really like the Locke vs Coldhands idea. Will be pretty pissed if its Locke doing the Jon stabbing. But I am starting to get the feeling that the show is turning in to a completely different animal than the books. Same premise - 2 different stories.

[Teren_Kanan]

While I'm sure Locke will remain an evil character, and ultimately a villain for Jon, I think it would be some mighty amazing storytelling to have such a bad character actually end up befriending Jon, and becoming a companion of his. Definitely fits the Grey world of ASOIAF. Everything the character needs for such a storyline is already there.

[JonBranRickon]

I think Locke lasts as long as the Craster Keep story lasts.

[Envie]

While I'm sure Locke will remain an evil character, and ultimately a villain for Jon, I think it would be some mighty amazing storytelling to have such a bad character actually end up befriending Jon, and becoming a companion of his. Definitely fits the Grey world of ASOIAF. Everything the character needs for such a storyline is already there.

I too could see this sort of thing happening with Locke even though it never would have happened with Vargo Hoat in the books. Locke's more of a loner than Vargo was and they don't have any of the Bloody Mummers etc, at all so Locke could definitely be morphed into something else. I don't think they will do that however as it doesn't really serve any purpose in Jon's future story as it plays out in the books unless there's a character we don't know about yet.

[Rhaenys Reborn]

Where did this Locke dude come from again? Have we seen him in the show before? If yes, I totally missed it.

[briantw]

Where did this Locke dude come from again? Have we seen him in the show before? If yes, I totally missed it.

He cut Jaime's hand off and delivered him and Brienne to Roose at Harrenhal. He was also at the Dreadfort in episode two. Roose told him he'd give him land in exchange for hunting down the two Stark children.

[Envie]

Where did this Locke dude come from again? Have we seen him in the show before? If yes, I totally missed it.

He's the replacement for Vargo Hoat (and the Bloody Mummers) in the book - he cut off Jaime's hand - how could anyone forget? :P

[sj4iy]

I'm thinking Locke deserts to go after Bran at Craster's Keep to give Bran an antagonist for the rest of his journey.

[JonBranRickon]

It is possible, Martin loves his shades of gray.

[jarl the climber]

Don't know if anyone pointed this out yet but I am thinking that Locke will be the person to stab Jon when the time comes. What you think?

I think Locke will turn on Jon and Bran and try to kill both of them and that will prove to Jon that its to dangerous for Bran to go back. I really think it would be more interesting if they ran into some White Walkers and maybe Locke saw the size of the Wildling host with Mance and sort of had a change of heart and went back to Roose and said, "Hey, its not that simple." and "you need Snow if your going to hold the Wall" and he lies about Bran perhaps out of a sense of Northern patriotism. All the back stabby stuff can be interesting but sometimes it can strain reason.

[Rhaenys Reborn]

He's the replacement for Vargo Hoat (and the Bloody Mummers) in the book - he cut off Jaime's hand - how could anyone forget? :P

Oh gotcha. Dunno, I kind of always assumed it was Vargo Hoat, never paid much attention to his face, although he did seem familiar :P

Totally missed him in the scene with Roose, though.

[Padraig3]

Don't know if anyone pointed this out yet but I am thinking that Locke will be the person to stab Jon when the time comes. What you think?

If that's the case the question is how will Craster's Keep play out?

Will Bran and Company have already escaped? Will Locke really help Jon? What if Jon meets with Bran again, will Locke eavesdrop on this, maybe he'll be the one to convince him to let Bran go North for his reasons? He may be a Bolton follower but it doesn't mean he's going to be willing to kill a cripple that's not Jaime Lannister, nevermind the fact that he may see him as dead already.

I'm leaning towards this as one it could distract the audience come the big event that happens in book 5, and will this mean that Locke actually becomes Jon's Steward?

I don't think it will help the writers if they just kill him off for that's another name that the audience will have to be introduced to later and there are plenty as of now, and this can keep the book readers guessing with a good idea as to what will happen.

I see it very believable that Locke becomes Jon's second hand man as he rises in ranks, since he's trying to imply a somewhat similar back story to Jon's.

[Padraig3]

Almost 100%.

He will probably end up protecting him during the battle w the wildings or something of the sort so that the viewer's think he has a redeeming quality behind his skill with a sword. After all, he was only charged to find Bran & Rickon. The show will give him some ups & downs to leave his true motive/ambition some vagueness, then when the time is right he'll def. be the one to do it.

But if so, how long can they really string that relationship out? Will we see Jon stabbed at the end of next season?!

I wish they'd expound on Janos Slynt a little bit so the showfolk can understand who he is, why he's there, and how much of a d-bag his really is. Many don't even recall him turning on Ned.

Also can't wait for the little redheaded kid to get revenge on Ygritte.

Agreed, now will they actually have Locke possibly gain some respect for Jon and the Watch, or even see Jon as a friend, seeing as the description of the scene in the books and seeing as him being the possible replacement of Bowen Marsh