Who wants Bran to meet Jon? [ Book Spoilers ]

[Chebyshov]

Wait wait hold the fuck up! No CH? I seriously was hoping to see him. If they are him then I see why they are writing Jon to kill them all. But also CH, is the one who helps Bran to his destination, right? Damn,

He is, but Bran touched the tree in episode 4x02 and then knew where to go, so it seems like CH is become less and less necessary to the plot. I'm sad about it, but seeing as Bran's going to make to BR this season, I get his omission.

[ovis alba]

Not sure if this got lost in all the other happenings this episode, but in Jon's conversation with Locke concerning his high-born-ness, they seemed to make a point in mentioning his mother. "My father was highborn. My mother was... not."

Just another R+L=J drop this season. What's that make, four now? They're gearing up for it.

Jep, I actually was sitting in front of the TV saying "Yeah, that's what YOU think" out loud when he said it. They are clearly setting up Jon's heritage to a bigger extent again this season, but Jon finding out before certain other things happen (like him meeting Stannis who is all about his claim) would feel very weird to me.

I somehow asumed more that we maybe get a "Bran finding out" moment earliest in the last episode of the season (might also fit to the "Children" title) that is IF it is already gonna be a early reveal this season on the show, which would be much earlier than the books already for the reader/viewer, but Jon finding out to me is still a step way beyond that.

[Chebyshov]

Jep, I actually was sitting in front of the TV saying "Yeah, that's what YOU think" out loud when he said it. They are clearly setting up Jon's heritage to a bigger extent again this season, but Jon finding out before certain other things happen (like him meeting Stannis who is all about his claim) would feel very weird to me.

I somehow asumed more that we maybe get a "Bran finding out" moment earliest in the last episode of the season (might also fit to the "Children" title) that is IF it is already gonna be a early reveal this season on the show, which would be much earlier than the books already for the reader/viewer, but Jon finding out to me is still a step way beyond that.

I think you're right, and besides, Show!Meera and Jojen seem to play their cards close to the vest. I could see them alluding to R+L without coming and saying anything direct to Jon, if they do, in fact, meet.

[sj4iy]

He is, but Bran touched the tree in episode 4x02 and then knew where to go, so it seems like CH is become less and less necessary to the plot. I'm sad about it, but seeing as Bran's going to make to BR this season, I get his omission.

I'm actually glad, because it gives Bran something to do and some danger to be in.

[Chebyshov]

I'm actually glad, because it gives Bran something to do and some danger to be in.

Yeah, even though I'm tense watching these scenes, I prefer it to Bran eating acorn paste for the rest of the season. And no CH means Bran's in a bit more control of their direction/decisions.

[ovis alba]

But that's one of the reasons why I'm reluctant for wanting the Starks to meet too early: They all have aquired some very important but also very distinct knowledge:

Bran has the warging and the dreams

Sansa has the whole LF connection and playing the GoT part

Arya has the assassin/Faceless Men (FM is starting to become a confusing abbreviation :D ) thing going on

Jon is aware of the White Walker danger more and more

and ok, Rickon is pretty much out of the reader's picture atm, but who knows what's going on with him

What the "Starks" in combination are still lacking is knowledge about the dragons, otherwise they have the big plots pretty much covered when they are combined.

That's why I think combining that knowledge could be eventually extremly (!) powerful and therefore combining it to early might be a huge game changer.

[FNF]

Now that Jon actually knows he is alive, I do. But it was a stupid decision to have him know about Bran in the first place.

[sj4iy]

Now that Jon actually knows he is alive, I do. But it was a stupid decision to have him know about Bran in the first place.

Why? How does it affect what Jon does in the future? It's not as if Jon can just leave Castle Black and get Bran. I always thought it was implausible that Sam never told Jon, his best friend in the world, that his brother was alive...especially after all of the bad sh** that has happened to Jon.

[FNF]

Why? How does it affect what Jon does in the future? It's not as if Jon can just leave Castle Black and get Bran. I always thought it was implausible that Sam never told Jon, his best friend in the world, that his brother was alive...especially after all of the bad sh** that has happened to Jon.

I feel that the implications of him knowing Bran's fate hinder the potential of Jon's 'difficult' decisions regarding Stannis and Winterfell. Imo it will detract from the tragic, conflicted character we see in aDwD.

[darksellsword]

The real question is if Jon finds out about his parentage from Bran or the Reeds will any of you stop watching the show? I don't think it will effect the stannis Jon interactions at all , He seemed pretty determined to turn down any title Stannis offered him it would make more sense actually if he knew about his own heritage.

[sj4iy]

I feel that the implications of him knowing Bran's fate hinder the potential of Jon's 'difficult' decisions regarding Stannis and Winterfell. Imo it will detract from the tragic, conflicted character we see in aDwD.

There's nothing saying that he won't think Bran dies between now and then...but he wouldn't be more conflicted about it now then he was in the books. If he were legitimized, he would trump Bran, just as he would trump Sansa (which is who he says is the 'true heir' in the books). He would still struggle with his desire to restore Winterfell and to be a 'true son' of his father. That wouldn't change, no matter if he knows Bran's alive or not.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

Why? How does it affect what Jon does in the future? It's not as if Jon can just leave Castle Black and get Bran. I always thought it was implausible that Sam never told Jon, his best friend in the world, that his brother was alive...especially after all of the bad sh** that has happened to Jon.

Because of the post I quoted below. Also, it affects Jon's character development greatly... in my opinion, anyway. Sam knows that if Jon is tempted by his siblings' lives on the line, he might choose to desert again, or do something that puts his own life in danger, anyway. It would be impulsive to tell Jon about meeting Bran. Sam probably guesses that Jon would try to go on a "ranging" to find his brother. Also, this could have affected his dealings with Stannis, Alys, the mountain tribes, etc. I'm not saying it would have, but there is a chance, and Sam was wise to not take the chance.

But that's one of the reasons why I'm reluctant for wanting the Starks to meet too early: They all have aquired some very important but also very distinct knowledge:

Bran has the warging and the dreams

Sansa has the whole LF connection and playing the GoT part

Arya has the assassin/Faceless Men (FM is starting to become a confusing abbreviation :D ) thing going on

Jon is aware of the White Walker danger more and more

and ok, Rickon is pretty much out of the reader's picture atm, but who knows what's going on with him

What the "Starks" in combination are still lacking is knowledge about the dragons, otherwise they have the big plots pretty much covered when they are combined.

That's why I think combining that knowledge could be eventually extremly (!) powerful and therefore combining it to early might be a huge game changer.

I agree. I really hope it will be a "near miss." And I think it will be.

I'm not sold that Meera and Jojen know Jon's parentage, but I absolutely hope they do not reveal it in the show before we find out in the books. If we can keep only one thing sacred, I hope it is that. I do see that they're building up to it but hope they will wait until next season ( we may have TWOW before then).

[sj4iy]

Because of the post I quoted below. Also, it affects Jon's character development greatly... in my opinion, anyway. Sam knows that if Jon is tempted by his siblings' lives on the line, he might choose to desert again, or do something that puts his own life in danger, anyway. It would be impulsive to tell Jon about meeting Bran. Sam probably guesses that Jon would try to go on a "ranging" to find his brother. Also, this could have affected his dealings with Stannis, Alys, the mountain tribes, etc. I'm not saying it would have, but there is a chance, and Sam was wise to not take the chance.

I agree. I really hope it will be a "near miss." And I think it will be.

I'm not sold that Meera and Jojen know Jon's parentage, but I absolutely hope they do not reveal it in the show before we find out in the books. If we can keep only one thing sacred, I hope it is that. I do see that they're building up to it but hope they will wait until next season ( we may have TWOW before then).

I doubt they'll give away Jon's parentage so soon, especially with the next book due sometime in the next year or so. But I could see how Bran and Jon could finally 'connect' so that Jon finally gains his ability to warg into Ghost, which has already happened at this point in the books.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I doubt they'll give away Jon's parentage so soon, especially with the next book due sometime in the next year or so. But I could see how Bran and Jon could finally 'connect' so that Jon finally gains his ability to warg into Ghost, which has already happened at this point in the books.

Yes, I think this needs to happen in the show as well. But I don't have a clue how they would do this. So far, Jon hasn't had any dreams(or visions as they appear to be on the show) on tv.

Does Bran send Jon the vision before or after he arrives at his destination? I don't remember.. it's been a while since I read ADWD.

Jon's been separated from Ghost for a while. Maybe when he discovers Ghost at Craster's, he will get a vision or feeling from Bran, who is nearby. They don't have to meet to communicate - at least not Bran.

A popular theory for book six is

Jon will warg into Ghost because he is dead or injured badly. Since we're already seeing book six spoilers in the show,

Jon needs to get to a certain point with Ghost as soon as possible if this theory should become true.

[ovis alba]

The real question is if Jon finds out about his parentage from Bran or the Reeds will any of you stop watching the show? I don't think it will effect the stannis Jon interactions at all , He seemed pretty determined to turn down any title Stannis offered him it would make more sense actually if he knew about his own heritage.

What does "watching the show" have to do with it at all?

I think it would change a whole lot of Jon's motivation and the way especially he himself sees him as a character if he finds out who he really is before he "dies" and this would have a huge impact on the story as a whole to me. But do I have to stop watching the show, when it becomes diffrent from the books? I would probably be even more interested watching if i knew the show had no clue how the books ended to see how different two endings of the same initial story can be :D

[Chebyshov]

Yes, I think this needs to happen in the show as well. But I don't have a clue how they would do this. So far, Jon hasn't had any dreams(or visions as they appear to be on the show) on tv.

Does Bran send Jon the vision before or after he arrives at his destination? I don't remember.. it's been a while since I read ADWD.

Jon's been separated from Ghost for a while. Maybe when he discovers Ghost at Craster's, he will get a vision or feeling from Bran, who is nearby. They don't have to meet to communicate - at least not Bran.

A popular theory for book six is

Jon will warg into Ghost because he is dead or injured badly. Since we're already seeing book six spoilers in the show,

Jon needs to get to a certain point with Ghost as soon as possible if this theory should become true.

Very good points. Which Jon vision are you talking about though?

[SoManyVows]

I would like to see Bran and Jon reunite, even if it's only for a brief moment. At the absolute least, I would like them to catch a glimpse of one another before Bran escapes into the woods. The possibility certainly exists for the show to repeat the Queenscrown scenario once again, but I except that Jon openly wondering if Bran might make his way to Craster's Keep was foreshadowing their eventual encounter. Some people here are upset that Sam told Jon that Bran is alive and traveling beyond the Wall, even though Bran never made Sam promise not to tell Jon. I'm happy with it, because I believe that the writers made this change for a reason.

Obviously Bran being captured by the mutineers serves primarily as a way to inject some drama and a sense of danger into his storyline - otherwise he wouldn't have anything to do until the finale! But say all that's happens is that Jon's attack inadvertently provides the distraction that Bran and the Reeds need to escape, and the two of them never cross paths. Then, from a storytelling perspective, it actually works better if Jon doesn't know that Bran is beyond the Wall, because it plays into the tragedy of the unknown; once again, these characters were so close, and yet so far from one another. Jon knowing about Bran AND unknowingly heading to the very place where his brother is being held captive creates a set of expectations that viewers, justly or not, will be expecting the show to meet. The near-miss at Queenscrown can be explained away as a coincidence, as it was in the book. This convergence is being constructed by the writers specifically for the show, and I expect that it will pay off.

I also think that the show has to be careful here, lest this particular trope becomes a running joke (which it already kind of is - the Starks haven't really been dealt a good hand by this world). Benioff and Weiss have already employed the so-close-but-yet-so-far device twice when it comes to potential Stark family reunions (the aforementioned Queenscrown, and Arya at the Red Wedding). They're also setting up yet another potential convergence with Sansa and Arya at the Vale, and we know for certain that one isn't going to come to fruition. But all of those near-misses are lifted directly from the book. This is new material, and they've set up several clues that lead me to believe that this particular encounter is going to play out differently.

Locke is the key to this, I think. He's an original character for the show, and he's currently been tasked by Roose Bolton to find the Stark boys and kill them. Well, this is his chance! He knows that Bran is beyond the Wall because he overheard Jon's conversation with Sam - it's the reason that he volunteered to go with Jon in the first place. Even if Jon doesn't encounter Bran, Locke has to, because otherwise what was the purpose of sending him to the Wall? Rickon isn't there, and Jon is a secondary priority for the Boltons because he isn't considered legitimate. Is the show just going to discard the entire sense of menace that they've cultivated around Locke, have him forget his original mission and decide to join the Night's Watch for real? That seems highly unlikely.

If Locke discovers that Bran is a captive at Craster's Keep during the attack, as seems likely, then he will have to make his move right then and there, because he might never get another chance to kill the boy. Then he'll have to be dealt with, and who is going to kill him? Meera? Summer? Bran, by warging into Hodor? Why not Jon? He'll be initially preoccupied with leading the attack, but if and when he realizes Locke's true purpose, then I have to assume that he'll drop everything else to save his brother. So during the chaos of the battle, Locke finds Bran. He's about to kill him when Jon intervenes. The two duel, and Jon kills Locke. He then shares a moment with his brother.

I think that this could actually turn out to be a very sweet and effective scene. Jon talks to Bran after saving him, and begs him to return with him to the relative safety of the Wall so that Jon can protect him. He wasn't able to help Ned or Robb, but he can help Bran, and that's important. Bran can explain the necessity of his journey, and in doing so remind Jon of the duty that he has to uphold - the new set of brothers that he has to protect. Eventually, Jon reluctantly allows Bran to go on, and the two of them reaffirm their brotherly love for one another and their hopes that the Stark family will be whole again one day. Things are pretty much pitch black right now, but this would offer up just a glimmer of hope, a candle in the darkness.

Such a scene would provide a nice sense of closure as the characters return to their own separate storylines. I hope that we get to see it.

[Ingelheim]

No. It's just a change too big.

[Ruin]

No...it would be better if they didn't meet. Still hoping Coldhands will show in some capacity.

[fuseprime]

I agree with a previous poster that said Bran and Co. will escape during the chaos of the NW's attack. If Bran and Jon meet, I think it'll cheapen the reunion the Starks will have in ADoS. :wideeyed: